6 ms·

Censorship is rearing its ugly head again. Can't have the wrong opinions. I feel like this really took off with the Corona virus pandemic, again with the Ukrain

Censorship is rearing its ugly head again. Can't have the wrong opinions. I feel like this really took off with the Corona virus pandemic, again with the Ukraine invasion, and now this.

Clubber 3y ago
Yes, all the people who couldn't imagine the censorship being used against "their team," here it is. It always happens. Censorship is the tool of authoritarians. Fight it in every form.
- 2356234562537 3y ago
  Well. My team doesn't hold rallys where people yell to gas the jews after a major terrorist attack. So... It's not that I can't imagine it being used against me it's just that I don't do that anyway so not being allowed to do it isn't a loss.
  - kweingar 3y ago
    There is violent rhetoric at all rallies related to this war, pro-Israel rallies included. Most people do not say such terrible things, some people do say them, and the opposition paints the whole rally as endorsing that stance. That’s the way it goes.
  - Clubber 3y ago
    Once a population is ok with censorship, they enable censorship, so eventually it will be a loss. That's what's happening right now.
  - jabradoodle 3y ago
    That is not what they banned, I strongly suspect that is already illegal. Also, your "my team" take is bordering on, if not racist. There is no "other team", they are diverse individuals who have opinions that differ from yours.
    - jamie_ca 3y ago
      Pretty sure with "my team," parent was talking American politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
  - Mandain62 3y ago
    > Well. My team doesn't hold rallys where people yell to gas the jews No your team hold rallies where people chants death to Arabs (even before the recent attacks) i.e. Just this last march, in Jerusalem under the protection of Israeli soldiers thousands of Israelis chanted "Death to Arabs" [1]. The term "Death to Arabs" is very famous in rallies and context of Israeli extremists, where some of the current Israeli government are members of their groups (i.e [2]). Will this change anything to you? I doubt but let's just say you are not being honest. [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/29/israel-jerusalem-march-death-arabs-00035862 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/29/israel-jerusalem-ma... [2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/extreme-right-mk-ben-gvir-claims-it-has-been-years-since-he-chanted-death-to-arabs/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/extreme-right-m...
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  I really doubt any pro-palestine activists were surprised by this one? The tactic of contacting our employers expecting them to fire us is a couple decades old at least. We are routinely called anti-semites for condemning treatment of palestinians. And in the US currently the right is the one with the book-banning campaign? Again idk really how you can paint this as a surprising twist lol. We all saw it coming.
- medvezhenok 3y ago
  Mirroring my comments elsewhere: In an ideal world we would not have censorship, but people would be punished for death threats and violent action. However, most governments do not have the resources needed to enforce such punishment in the scale necessary (in these cases). When the need for that supercedes the capacity of the state to control it, the devil's bargain to censor speech instead.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Multiple governments have already come to feel that the sort of rhetoric that appears at these demonstrations, like chanting “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, crosses the line into advocacy of genocide and are not mere opinions. Advocacy of genocide has been forbidden since long before COVID happened. It’s important to remember that after the Holocaust, European nations have a special responsibility to the Jewish people, and therefore they often err on the side of caution in preventing that people from being targets of potentially genocidal rhetoric.
- mjr00 3y ago
  > Advocacy of genocide has been forbidden since long before COVID happened. Really? Cause I remember post-9/11 it was a pretty mainstream opinion that America should go glass the middle east. And then, you know, America went and actually did start an awful, bloody war in the middle east that lasted for 20+ years. It was the anti-war people who were getting censored and accused of being terrorist sympathizers.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    The featured article is about France, not the USA.
  - almatabata 3y ago
    France refused to go to war in Iraq which pissed the US so much they renamed french fries to freedom fries.
- eli_gottlieb 3y ago
  >It’s important to remember that after the Holocaust, European nations have a special responsibility to the Jewish people, and therefore they often errs on the side of caution in preventing that people from being targets of potentially genocidal rhetoric. Oh bloody fucking rubbish. French courts let a guy off on murdering a French Jew, in France, because he had smoked marijuana beforehand.
  - 3y ago
Gibbon1 3y ago
[flagged]
- hfuyf65 3y ago
  This censorship is in a capital of a western power. We can condemn Hamas AND condemn failing democratic society by not upholding basic freedoms that built it.
  - medvezhenok 3y ago
    The censorship is likely an uncomfortable trade-off. In an ideal world, we would allow speech and carefully police when that speech turns into death threats or violent action. However, state capabilities and surveillance capabilities are not sufficient in the west for the second part of that. So the devil's compromise is to restrict the former (because people who would be motivated to issue death threats or commit violent actions are frequently encouraged by the former actions of free speech).
    - hfuyf65 3y ago
      [dead]
- enterprise_cog 3y ago
  Can’t go there, the IAF is leveling all the buildings (and women and children).
  - Gibbon1 3y ago
    Hamas could put their hands up and walk out too.
    - enterprise_cog 3y ago
      Israel could stop bombing civilians too.
funcDropShadow 3y ago
No, democracies have to have limits what they tolerate. Killing civilians just because they have a certain religion is incompatible with western values. The limit should be too not be tolerant with people that are not willing to provide the same tolerance. By that standard celebrating the killing of civilians we shouldn't tolerate.
- BudaDude 3y ago
  Palestine != Hamas
- jabradoodle 3y ago
  That isn't what they banned, they banned pro Palestine demonstrations. Not a mention of Hamas.
  - medvezhenok 3y ago
    The problems were not the demonstrations, it was the barrage of death threats against Jews (inside France). Which were linked and exacerbated because of the demonstrations. The demonstrations themselves are acceptable - but the linked death threats definitely aren't, and unfortunately the state apparatus is not set up to deal adequately with the latter.
    - stvltvs 3y ago
      Can you expand on how the death threats were linked to the protests? I tend to think focusing on the threats themselves would be the better approach. Having trouble seeing how shutting down protest would help.
      - nickthegreek 3y ago
        2 days ago in Australia the pro-palenstinian protestors were chanting gas the Jews. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/pro-palestine-protest-sydeny-opera-house-hamas-attacks/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/pro-palest...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Censorship is rearing its ugly head again. Can't have the wrong opinions. I feel like this really took off with the Corona virus pandemic, again with the Ukraine invasion, and now this.

Clubber 3y ago

Yes, all the people who couldn't imagine the censorship being used against "their team," here it is. It always happens. Censorship is the tool of authoritarians. Fight it in every form.

2356234562537 3y ago
Well. My team doesn't hold rallys where people yell to gas the jews after a major terrorist attack. So... It's not that I can't imagine it being used against me it's just that I don't do that anyway so not being allowed to do it isn't a loss.
- kweingar 3y ago
  There is violent rhetoric at all rallies related to this war, pro-Israel rallies included. Most people do not say such terrible things, some people do say them, and the opposition paints the whole rally as endorsing that stance. That’s the way it goes.
- Clubber 3y ago
  Once a population is ok with censorship, they enable censorship, so eventually it will be a loss. That's what's happening right now.
- jabradoodle 3y ago
  That is not what they banned, I strongly suspect that is already illegal. Also, your "my team" take is bordering on, if not racist. There is no "other team", they are diverse individuals who have opinions that differ from yours.
  - jamie_ca 3y ago
    Pretty sure with "my team," parent was talking American politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
- Mandain62 3y ago
  > Well. My team doesn't hold rallys where people yell to gas the jews No your team hold rallies where people chants death to Arabs (even before the recent attacks) i.e. Just this last march, in Jerusalem under the protection of Israeli soldiers thousands of Israelis chanted "Death to Arabs" [1]. The term "Death to Arabs" is very famous in rallies and context of Israeli extremists, where some of the current Israeli government are members of their groups (i.e [2]). Will this change anything to you? I doubt but let's just say you are not being honest. [1] https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/29/israel-jerusalem-march-death-arabs-00035862 https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/29/israel-jerusalem-ma... [2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/extreme-right-mk-ben-gvir-claims-it-has-been-years-since-he-chanted-death-to-arabs/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/extreme-right-m...
giraffe_lady 3y ago
I really doubt any pro-palestine activists were surprised by this one? The tactic of contacting our employers expecting them to fire us is a couple decades old at least. We are routinely called anti-semites for condemning treatment of palestinians. And in the US currently the right is the one with the book-banning campaign? Again idk really how you can paint this as a surprising twist lol. We all saw it coming.
medvezhenok 3y ago
Mirroring my comments elsewhere: In an ideal world we would not have censorship, but people would be punished for death threats and violent action. However, most governments do not have the resources needed to enforce such punishment in the scale necessary (in these cases). When the need for that supercedes the capacity of the state to control it, the devil's bargain to censor speech instead.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

OfSanguineFire 3y ago

Multiple governments have already come to feel that the sort of rhetoric that appears at these demonstrations, like chanting “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, crosses the line into advocacy of genocide and are not mere opinions. Advocacy of genocide has been forbidden since long before COVID happened. It’s important to remember that after the Holocaust, European nations have a special responsibility to the Jewish people, and therefore they often err on the side of caution in preventing that people from being targets of potentially genocidal rhetoric.

mjr00 3y ago
> Advocacy of genocide has been forbidden since long before COVID happened. Really? Cause I remember post-9/11 it was a pretty mainstream opinion that America should go glass the middle east. And then, you know, America went and actually did start an awful, bloody war in the middle east that lasted for 20+ years. It was the anti-war people who were getting censored and accused of being terrorist sympathizers.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  The featured article is about France, not the USA.
- almatabata 3y ago
  France refused to go to war in Iraq which pissed the US so much they renamed french fries to freedom fries.
eli_gottlieb 3y ago
>It’s important to remember that after the Holocaust, European nations have a special responsibility to the Jewish people, and therefore they often errs on the side of caution in preventing that people from being targets of potentially genocidal rhetoric. Oh bloody fucking rubbish. French courts let a guy off on murdering a French Jew, in France, because he had smoked marijuana beforehand.
- 3y ago

Gibbon1 3y ago

[flagged]

hfuyf65 3y ago
This censorship is in a capital of a western power. We can condemn Hamas AND condemn failing democratic society by not upholding basic freedoms that built it.
- medvezhenok 3y ago
  The censorship is likely an uncomfortable trade-off. In an ideal world, we would allow speech and carefully police when that speech turns into death threats or violent action. However, state capabilities and surveillance capabilities are not sufficient in the west for the second part of that. So the devil's compromise is to restrict the former (because people who would be motivated to issue death threats or commit violent actions are frequently encouraged by the former actions of free speech).
  - hfuyf65 3y ago
    [dead]
enterprise_cog 3y ago
Can’t go there, the IAF is leveling all the buildings (and women and children).
- Gibbon1 3y ago
  Hamas could put their hands up and walk out too.
  - enterprise_cog 3y ago
    Israel could stop bombing civilians too.

funcDropShadow 3y ago

No, democracies have to have limits what they tolerate. Killing civilians just because they have a certain religion is incompatible with western values. The limit should be too not be tolerant with people that are not willing to provide the same tolerance. By that standard celebrating the killing of civilians we shouldn't tolerate.

BudaDude 3y ago
Palestine != Hamas
jabradoodle 3y ago
That isn't what they banned, they banned pro Palestine demonstrations. Not a mention of Hamas.
- medvezhenok 3y ago
  The problems were not the demonstrations, it was the barrage of death threats against Jews (inside France). Which were linked and exacerbated because of the demonstrations. The demonstrations themselves are acceptable - but the linked death threats definitely aren't, and unfortunately the state apparatus is not set up to deal adequately with the latter.
  - stvltvs 3y ago
    Can you expand on how the death threats were linked to the protests? I tend to think focusing on the threats themselves would be the better approach. Having trouble seeing how shutting down protest would help.
    - nickthegreek 3y ago
      2 days ago in Australia the pro-palenstinian protestors were chanting gas the Jews. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/pro-palestine-protest-sydeny-opera-house-hamas-attacks/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/pro-palest...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]