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> I don't understand how this is legal. It's presumably laid out in the contract that their users sign. IANAL but I understand contract law gives wide latitude
by runako 3y ago
> I don't understand how this is legal.
It's presumably laid out in the contract that their users sign. IANAL but I understand contract law gives wide latitude for parties to make agreements to do things which are generally legal.
One could imagine a legal regime that prohibited price or service changes in otherwise-legal contracts. Of course, that also might not be ideal. For example: a vendor used by the provider suddenly changes the capabilities of a piece of equipment such that the original service sold by the provider can no longer be provided at any price. What everybody wants in that scenario is for you to be seamlessly moved to the closest reasonable alternative, not for your service to automatically terminate. Similarly, most people will gripe about a $10/mo change in price, but against the likely alternative of automatic cancellation, the increased fee is what _most_ people will prefer.
And again, 100% of them will have agreed to this exception-handling clause when they signed up.
> This is like if I order a $200 SSD from Amazon and instead they ship me a $300 SSD and charge me $300, and there are no returns if I don't cancel the order before it's fulfilled.
There is a material difference in changing prices (say) 5 years after a contract was signed and ordering a specific item at a specific price a week or two earlier. IANAL but I believe the ordering of goods via the Internet is in fact covered by different laws in a way that services are not. Which again, makes some sense given that service contracts frequently have a term of "forever," during which time everything about the world can change. (Pretty sure my current phone contract was signed over 10 years ago. I'm glad they changed my plan to let me use LTE, for example.)
- crazygringo 3y agoBut contact law also strikes down contact provisions all the time. Generally speaking, contracts between two parties who know what they're doing, with lawyers, are pretty iron-clad. But TOS with consumers are not. Unreasonable/abusive TOS clauses are struck down quite frequently. Things like consumer protection laws supersede anything in a TOS. And consumer protection laws are precisely the kind of thing meant to stop companies from playing bait-and-switch with consumers like this.
- runako 3y agoAbsolutely agree re: abusive TOS clauses. My question is this: if you were on a panel evaluating whether it's more abusive to a) migrate customers to a plan that's $10 more or b) end their service because the vendor no longer offers that service, which would you vote for? Note that consumer panels will have less ability to force a vendor to set prices or provide specific services, so there will not be the third option of c) force the vendor to continue providing the service at the contracted price.
- hef19898 3y agoThat's why in Europe abusive and surprising (to an informed party) terms and condiations are invalid. Quite aome legal disputes around those so.
- runako 3y agoCurious -- how do services raise prices? Is the presumption that a carrier has to give notice, then the user has to opt in or their service automatically terminates? > in Europe abusive and surprising (to an informed party) terms and condiations It can't be surprising to any informed party that prices change. Especially right now, it cannot be argued in good faith that a price increase was surprising to anyone. Does the user have to opt in each time the service changes (for ex if 2G service gets dropped)? Who decides what changes require a user's approval?
- flarg 3y agoIn the EU they send a letter informing of price change and give you the right of cancellation except for rate rises in line with the retail price index or inflation which are included in the contract. Truly fixed price contracts are advertised as such, I have one for my broadband, can only be withdrawn by the vendor.
- dawnerd 3y agoA lot of these older plans were marketed as no contract plans. That was tmobiles whole thing for a while. No more contracts. Obviously there still is via terms and such but it’s a pretty gray area I’m sure lawyers would be willing to argue in court. They also claimed prices would never go up (on your plan).
- sdossick 3y agoIf the user has changed phones (even keeping the same number) or has for instance begun using 5G (which wasn't available 5 years ago...tmo started rolling it out at the tail end of 2019), they're using a materially different product than they were originally contracted for, and have likely agreed to new terms. Not saying that isn't scammy or scummy, but just like you've changed the product you're using, they can change the product they're selling.