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Three points: 1. The Lucid Air is a pretty amazing car. Design and engineering are all top notch. Lucid had some early issues, primarily with software, when th

Three points: 1. The Lucid Air is a pretty amazing car. Design and engineering are all top notch. Lucid had some early issues, primarily with software, when the Air was first released (wholly to be expected for a brand new car company), but those have largely been resolved. Check out the owner forums - Lucid owners generally love their car. 2. Folks are focusing on the "entry-level" wording. It's obviously not entry-level for the population at large, it just means it's entry level for Lucid. Just like Tesla started at the high end with the original roadster and Model S, Lucid is doing the same. 3. Lucid Air is a great car but no other car companies can come anywhere close to Tesla's supercharger network (at least in the US, not familiar with other countries). All the other charging networks are horrible in comparison. The biggest complaint you'll see about Lucid is folks bitching about Electrify America. Even if Lucid were to switch to the "North American Charging Standard" (i.e. Tesla's standard), Lucid has a high voltage system which means the existing superchargers would max out at something like 50 kW, which is way too slow for fast charging. May not matter much if you don't do a lot of road trips given Lucid's huge battery is more that sufficient for city/regional driving, but the charging network will continue to be every other EV company's achilles heel.

MostlyStable 3y ago
So while I won't quibble with the assertion that Tesla's network is better (it's most definitely larger), I think that the assertion that other networks (particularly EA since it's the next largest) are so bad is, I'm pretty sure, overblown. The bad experiences are real, but I think we get the same issue with many reviews where the people who have bad experiences are the only ones who say anything. I've done multiple 10+ hours road trips using the EA network and run into an issue exactly one time. Now, yes, one time is certainly less than ideal. But the solution was that I just went to a nearby charging station (non EA) and charged there. Again, to be clear, being unable to charge once out of 50ish times is pretty bad relative to gas stations and probably Teslas network, and it's something that needs to get better, but I'm not sure I agree with characterizing it as horrible either. It caused me about 15 minutes delay. And of course, the fact that nearly every manufacturer is going to be supporting NACS soon renders these differences moot in the mid-term anyway. Which brings me to my second thing: I'm curious about your assertion that a Lucid would cap out at 50kW at a Tesla supecharger. My understanding is that some Superchargers go up to 250, and that, other than the connector being a different shape, that Teslas network is already using the same charging specs as the other networks, which is part of why the migration to NACS seems to be happening so fast. My understanding is that once Tesla actually opens their network up, that it will basically work identically to other chargers with just the addition of basically a plug adapter. I believe it's even already using the same communication protocol. Am I misunderstanding something, or why should the Lucid be capped at such a slow charging rate?
- rtkwe 3y ago
  My understanding of the DC fast charging is it bypasses the car's internal battery charging circuitry for the AC/DC conversion so if the battery is higher voltage than the DC fast charger is built for it won't be able to charge the battery.
- drewg123 3y ago
  Its not quite that simple, as the voltage supplied by Tesla superchargers is quite a bit lower than CCS. Tesla superchargers use a 400v system, and Lucid has an 800v architecture. I've read that Lucid is capped at a max of 50Kw when charging with a 400v system. See https://lucidowners.com/threads/tesla-charging-on-lucid.4369/ https://lucidowners.com/threads/tesla-charging-on-lucid.4369...
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  To oversimplify, P = V^2 / R. Lucid wants 924 volts, but when the charger only supplies 400 volts then it's less than 1/4 of the power.
- turtlebits 3y ago
  Electricy America issues aren't overblown. I'm in Seattle. Almost every other time I've fast charged, there has been an issue, either failing to start, failing after starting (I have at least 20 charging sessions billed at $0.00 or under $1 due to these partial failures). I'd say 80% of the time there is at least 1 station out of service.
  - MostlyStable 3y ago
    Like I said, I completely believe you. But it's also not universal. I've driven from Portland to Central CA multiple times, and had nearly none of the issues you describe.
bombcar 3y ago
Given a “50 mph average” for road trips (with stops, eating, etc) this thing can apparently do about eight hours on the road, or a decent 10 hour day counting stops, more if you can get a bit of charge at the longer stops. If you can charge at the hotel you can probably pretty reliably roadtrip in this.
- jondwillis 3y ago
  That extra range would have been nice for me a year and a half ago. I drove a Model 3 Perf cross country in the winter while solo, I found it welcome and even nice to take little charge/pee/stretch/food breaks. But sometimes I had to charge for longer while I was ready to get on with it, and range estimates would sometimes decline due to weather or road conditions, so I found myself occasionally having to add another 15 minute charge between my planned charges. If I recall, 2/4 hotels I stayed at had some way for me to charge overnight, or otherwise were near enough to a supercharger that I could make a stop before turning in for the night. Overall, I made something like 15-17 supercharger stops. I imagine the lucid would be more like 10.
gottorf 3y ago
> Lucid had some early issues, primarily with software, when the Air was first released (wholly to be expected for a brand new car company) Wasn't the Air a $100k car when it was first released? I would wholly expect a luxury car at that price tag to, you know, not have such software gremlins.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  I pretty strongly disagree, primarily because I think it's impossible. Literally every new complicated product, especially from a new car company, has glitches. And most "early adopters" I think understand that fact, even for very expensive purchases. The important thing is that those glitches are quickly addressed, and customer service has to be top notch. For Lucid I think both those things apply.

MostlyStable 3y ago

So while I won't quibble with the assertion that Tesla's network is better (it's most definitely larger), I think that the assertion that other networks (particularly EA since it's the next largest) are so bad is, I'm pretty sure, overblown. The bad experiences are real, but I think we get the same issue with many reviews where the people who have bad experiences are the only ones who say anything. I've done multiple 10+ hours road trips using the EA network and run into an issue exactly one time. Now, yes, one time is certainly less than ideal. But the solution was that I just went to a nearby charging station (non EA) and charged there. Again, to be clear, being unable to charge once out of 50ish times is pretty bad relative to gas stations and probably Teslas network, and it's something that needs to get better, but I'm not sure I agree with characterizing it as horrible either. It caused me about 15 minutes delay. And of course, the fact that nearly every manufacturer is going to be supporting NACS soon renders these differences moot in the mid-term anyway. Which brings me to my second thing: I'm curious about your assertion that a Lucid would cap out at 50kW at a Tesla supecharger. My understanding is that some Superchargers go up to 250, and that, other than the connector being a different shape, that Teslas network is already using the same charging specs as the other networks, which is part of why the migration to NACS seems to be happening so fast. My understanding is that once Tesla actually opens their network up, that it will basically work identically to other chargers with just the addition of basically a plug adapter. I believe it's even already using the same communication protocol. Am I misunderstanding something, or why should the Lucid be capped at such a slow charging rate?

rtkwe 3y ago
My understanding of the DC fast charging is it bypasses the car's internal battery charging circuitry for the AC/DC conversion so if the battery is higher voltage than the DC fast charger is built for it won't be able to charge the battery.
drewg123 3y ago
Its not quite that simple, as the voltage supplied by Tesla superchargers is quite a bit lower than CCS. Tesla superchargers use a 400v system, and Lucid has an 800v architecture. I've read that Lucid is capped at a max of 50Kw when charging with a 400v system. See https://lucidowners.com/threads/tesla-charging-on-lucid.4369/ https://lucidowners.com/threads/tesla-charging-on-lucid.4369...
bryanlarsen 3y ago
To oversimplify, P = V^2 / R. Lucid wants 924 volts, but when the charger only supplies 400 volts then it's less than 1/4 of the power.
turtlebits 3y ago
Electricy America issues aren't overblown. I'm in Seattle. Almost every other time I've fast charged, there has been an issue, either failing to start, failing after starting (I have at least 20 charging sessions billed at $0.00 or under $1 due to these partial failures). I'd say 80% of the time there is at least 1 station out of service.
- MostlyStable 3y ago
  Like I said, I completely believe you. But it's also not universal. I've driven from Portland to Central CA multiple times, and had nearly none of the issues you describe.

bombcar 3y ago

Given a “50 mph average” for road trips (with stops, eating, etc) this thing can apparently do about eight hours on the road, or a decent 10 hour day counting stops, more if you can get a bit of charge at the longer stops. If you can charge at the hotel you can probably pretty reliably roadtrip in this.

jondwillis 3y ago
That extra range would have been nice for me a year and a half ago. I drove a Model 3 Perf cross country in the winter while solo, I found it welcome and even nice to take little charge/pee/stretch/food breaks. But sometimes I had to charge for longer while I was ready to get on with it, and range estimates would sometimes decline due to weather or road conditions, so I found myself occasionally having to add another 15 minute charge between my planned charges. If I recall, 2/4 hotels I stayed at had some way for me to charge overnight, or otherwise were near enough to a supercharger that I could make a stop before turning in for the night. Overall, I made something like 15-17 supercharger stops. I imagine the lucid would be more like 10.

gottorf 3y ago

> Lucid had some early issues, primarily with software, when the Air was first released (wholly to be expected for a brand new car company) Wasn't the Air a $100k car when it was first released? I would wholly expect a luxury car at that price tag to, you know, not have such software gremlins.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I pretty strongly disagree, primarily because I think it's impossible. Literally every new complicated product, especially from a new car company, has glitches. And most "early adopters" I think understand that fact, even for very expensive purchases. The important thing is that those glitches are quickly addressed, and customer service has to be top notch. For Lucid I think both those things apply.