3 ms·

One fascinating thing is that on the one hand, the petrol industry messed up the recycling labels, but meanwhile, I am being made responsible by my government f

One fascinating thing is that on the one hand, the petrol industry messed up the recycling labels, but meanwhile, I am being made responsible by my government for the amount of plastic "I create".

kmeisthax 3y ago
I absolutely hate the ongoing effort to shift the costs of pollution and environmental damage onto end consumers who have no say in the actual production of the products they purchase. "Carbon footprint" was heavily pushed by the oil industry to blame people who buy their shit for buying their shit.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > "Carbon footprint" was literally coined by oil industries to blame people who buy their shit for buying their shit. Where did you learn this?
  - kmeisthax 3y ago
    https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sham https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sh... I misremembered the story. It wasn't literally coined by the oil industry, but it was heavily pushed by them. BP had an ad campaign talking about "personal carbon footprint" in 2005 which put the phrase into the public consciousness.
    - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
      Carbon should be taxed when it comes out of the ground. It’s the only way that price signals can actually change people’s behavior. Is also the most market friendly way to do it. But at least in the US it seems politically impossible.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      Well, consumption is what drives it. Education-based messages that convince people to consume less/differently are the non-authoritarian way to effect change.
matsemann 3y ago
Why is that bad to be responsible for it? I don't like the take that I often see, that "these big companies are responsible for Y% of total pollution, yet I have to use a paper straw" or similar. Like, why are those companies so big offenders? Because they're providing the products we as consumers consume. If the external costs of our consumption got priced into what we have to pay, it could actually shift behavior. Companies not polluting as much would win, as their products would be cheaper and gain market share etc.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  The parent poster's complaint is that industry "messed up the recycling labels", which is true; the recyling logo is basically meaningless. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chasing-arrows-plastic-recycling-symbol-may-get-tossed-in-the-trash/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chasing-arrows-plastic-recyclin... > The EPA agrees. In April, the agency recommended the Federal Trade Commission get rid of the chasing arrows recycling symbol for plastics, calling it "deceptive or misleading." > But not every plastic with the symbol on it can be easily recycled. Inside the chasing arrows symbol sits a small number, called a resin identification code, or RIC. "The numbers were to communicate to people sorting the plastics, how recyclable they are on a scale from 1 to 7," said O'Neill. "It wasn't ever a signal to consumers to say, hey, all of this is recyclable." O'Neill said the numbers 1 and 2 are for the hard plastics found in things like containers and bottles. But items with the other numbers, 3 through 7, are more difficult to recycle.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
You should vote for someone that supports "Extended Producer Responsibility" laws that make the people who make the decisions deal with the costs. This has the magical effect of them suddenly being able to do things that they would falsely describe as "impossible", "impractical" or "too costly" when it's posssible to past the costs of not doing it onto someone else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_producer_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_producer_responsibili...
Aunche 3y ago
The government isn't holding a gun to your head demanding that you accept responsibility for your plastic consumption. If it's something you care about, you're necessarily responsible. You can't just pass all the responsibility to corporations. Glass Coke bottles are still used in Mexico because consumers bother to deposit them enough for bottle reuse to be economical.

One fascinating thing is that on the one hand, the petrol industry messed up the recycling labels, but meanwhile, I am being made responsible by my government for the amount of plastic "I create".

kmeisthax 3y ago

I absolutely hate the ongoing effort to shift the costs of pollution and environmental damage onto end consumers who have no say in the actual production of the products they purchase. "Carbon footprint" was heavily pushed by the oil industry to blame people who buy their shit for buying their shit.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> "Carbon footprint" was literally coined by oil industries to blame people who buy their shit for buying their shit. Where did you learn this?
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sham https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sh... I misremembered the story. It wasn't literally coined by the oil industry, but it was heavily pushed by them. BP had an ad campaign talking about "personal carbon footprint" in 2005 which put the phrase into the public consciousness.
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    Carbon should be taxed when it comes out of the ground. It’s the only way that price signals can actually change people’s behavior. Is also the most market friendly way to do it. But at least in the US it seems politically impossible.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    Well, consumption is what drives it. Education-based messages that convince people to consume less/differently are the non-authoritarian way to effect change.

matsemann 3y ago

Why is that bad to be responsible for it? I don't like the take that I often see, that "these big companies are responsible for Y% of total pollution, yet I have to use a paper straw" or similar. Like, why are those companies so big offenders? Because they're providing the products we as consumers consume. If the external costs of our consumption got priced into what we have to pay, it could actually shift behavior. Companies not polluting as much would win, as their products would be cheaper and gain market share etc.

ceejayoz 3y ago
The parent poster's complaint is that industry "messed up the recycling labels", which is true; the recyling logo is basically meaningless. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chasing-arrows-plastic-recycling-symbol-may-get-tossed-in-the-trash/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chasing-arrows-plastic-recyclin... > The EPA agrees. In April, the agency recommended the Federal Trade Commission get rid of the chasing arrows recycling symbol for plastics, calling it "deceptive or misleading." > But not every plastic with the symbol on it can be easily recycled. Inside the chasing arrows symbol sits a small number, called a resin identification code, or RIC. "The numbers were to communicate to people sorting the plastics, how recyclable they are on a scale from 1 to 7," said O'Neill. "It wasn't ever a signal to consumers to say, hey, all of this is recyclable." O'Neill said the numbers 1 and 2 are for the hard plastics found in things like containers and bottles. But items with the other numbers, 3 through 7, are more difficult to recycle.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

You should vote for someone that supports "Extended Producer Responsibility" laws that make the people who make the decisions deal with the costs. This has the magical effect of them suddenly being able to do things that they would falsely describe as "impossible", "impractical" or "too costly" when it's posssible to past the costs of not doing it onto someone else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_producer_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_producer_responsibili...

Aunche 3y ago

The government isn't holding a gun to your head demanding that you accept responsibility for your plastic consumption. If it's something you care about, you're necessarily responsible. You can't just pass all the responsibility to corporations. Glass Coke bottles are still used in Mexico because consumers bother to deposit them enough for bottle reuse to be economical.