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We are not stuck and these issues are solvable (as much as they exist): trade of electricity with neighbouring countries, storage etc. For example, a simple thi

We are not stuck and these issues are solvable (as much as they exist): trade of electricity with neighbouring countries, storage etc. For example, a simple thing where Germany could try to follow the Nordic countries is heat pump installations to keep houses warm without fossil fuels.

cyberax 3y ago
> We are not stuck and these issues are solvable I don't believe they are solvable with the existing approaches. Transition to natural gas from coal is possible, but there's nothing on the horizon after that. The existing plans (if you can call them that) mostly depend on asterisks pointing to a footnote saying "magic happens here": cheap hydrogen, power-to-gas, radically cheaper batteries, etc. > For example, a simple thing where Germany could try to follow the Nordic countries is heat pump installations to keep houses warm without fossil fuels. They are trying. But they are already having problems with very expensive electricity. Which will only get worse, as demand climbs with more heat pumps.
- tuukkah 3y ago
  > there's nothing on the horizon We can build more of what we have, such as pumped hydro and EU-wide interconnections. You mentioned the fear that the solutions will cost 5 times more than nuclear. That's not a horrible worst case scenario (as nuclear is so cheap ;-) and we can be sure that costs go down as the markets scale and technologies mature. It may look bleak in Germany at the moment, but it certainly doesn't look bleak everywhere or for long.
oceanofsolaris 3y ago
It is true that heating should be electrified … but it’s important to note that this makes the Dunkelflaute problem more serious, not less. Because now your inflexible base-load has increased. And while spreading generation over a wider area helps, it rapidly reaches limits (unless your power grid extends close to the equator).
- tuukkah 3y ago
  It makes it less serious in the north where shortage of electricity would mean freezing indoor temperatures. Heat pumps have reduced the amount of electricity needed (compared to direct electric heating) for heating a house and thus the amount of imports/storage needed. Also, if the heat pumps are a part of a district heating system, a heat storage solution can be included in the system. In a country where heating isn't yet electrified, it's a way to reduce fossil fuel use and carbon emissions (the ultimate goal) without necessarily reducing the fossil electricity production. So even if it doesn't solve Dunkelflaute alone, it's a part of solving the climate and energy crises.
  - cyberax 3y ago
    Germany is complicated, because they mostly use gas for heating, not electricity. So switching to heatpumps will require more generation. And for now this means new natural gas plants. This is not _too_ bad in itself, using gas for generation and then powering heat pumps is more efficient than burning gas for heating. But the capital requirements for new power plants will cement Germany's dependence on fossil fuels for at least another 2 decades. It's a mess.

cyberax 3y ago

> We are not stuck and these issues are solvable I don't believe they are solvable with the existing approaches. Transition to natural gas from coal is possible, but there's nothing on the horizon after that. The existing plans (if you can call them that) mostly depend on asterisks pointing to a footnote saying "magic happens here": cheap hydrogen, power-to-gas, radically cheaper batteries, etc. > For example, a simple thing where Germany could try to follow the Nordic countries is heat pump installations to keep houses warm without fossil fuels. They are trying. But they are already having problems with very expensive electricity. Which will only get worse, as demand climbs with more heat pumps.

tuukkah 3y ago
> there's nothing on the horizon We can build more of what we have, such as pumped hydro and EU-wide interconnections. You mentioned the fear that the solutions will cost 5 times more than nuclear. That's not a horrible worst case scenario (as nuclear is so cheap ;-) and we can be sure that costs go down as the markets scale and technologies mature. It may look bleak in Germany at the moment, but it certainly doesn't look bleak everywhere or for long.

oceanofsolaris 3y ago

It is true that heating should be electrified … but it’s important to note that this makes the Dunkelflaute problem more serious, not less. Because now your inflexible base-load has increased. And while spreading generation over a wider area helps, it rapidly reaches limits (unless your power grid extends close to the equator).

tuukkah 3y ago
It makes it less serious in the north where shortage of electricity would mean freezing indoor temperatures. Heat pumps have reduced the amount of electricity needed (compared to direct electric heating) for heating a house and thus the amount of imports/storage needed. Also, if the heat pumps are a part of a district heating system, a heat storage solution can be included in the system. In a country where heating isn't yet electrified, it's a way to reduce fossil fuel use and carbon emissions (the ultimate goal) without necessarily reducing the fossil electricity production. So even if it doesn't solve Dunkelflaute alone, it's a part of solving the climate and energy crises.
- cyberax 3y ago
  Germany is complicated, because they mostly use gas for heating, not electricity. So switching to heatpumps will require more generation. And for now this means new natural gas plants. This is not _too_ bad in itself, using gas for generation and then powering heat pumps is more efficient than burning gas for heating. But the capital requirements for new power plants will cement Germany's dependence on fossil fuels for at least another 2 decades. It's a mess.