3 ms·

Everything East of the Iron Wall (German Divide) was under USSR control.

by nickpp 3y ago

Muromec 3y ago
But it’s Yougoslavia, it’s to the south
- throwaway71271 3y ago
  as they say, its in the name: land of the south slavs :)
hahamaster 3y ago
It was called iron curtain, not iron wall. Yugoslavia was in between the west and the east back then. We were not under USSR control. We could hop on a plane and fly to London any time we pleased, unlike for example, Hungarians or east Germans.
- nickpp 3y ago
  Interesting. I stand corrected, then.
  - hahamaster 3y ago
    Thank you!
retrac 3y ago
Yes, but Yugoslavia wasn't behind the Iron Curtain. It wasn't aligned with the USSR. It wasn't under USSR control (after 1948 [1]). It was officially neutral during the Cold War (Yugoslavia founded the Non-Aligned Movement). Sometimes close to the USA, even receiving American military aid at times. Relevantly for us and this topic, Yugoslavia was not subject to the Western bans on exporting sensitive technology to Communist countries. Western personal computers and semiconductors could be legally imported, in theory, assuming you could afford them and the unfavourable exchange rates. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_split https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_split
- flohofwoe 3y ago
  Technically, import was legal into all Eastern Bloc countries, it's the export from a western country which was illegal because of the COCOM embargo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Multilateral_Export_Controls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Mul... I actually don't know if Yugoslavia was embargoed too though (technically, Yugoslavia wasn't part of the "Eastern Bloc"). But of course even without embargo the markets were just not interesting for western companies, because of the worthless currencies (for instance, 8-bit home computers didn't fall under the embargo, but they were still not generally available in shops, only on the grey market).
  - thriftwy 3y ago
    It's a surprising sight to see Western companies showing no interest in 25 million strong economy.
    - throwaway50182 3y ago
      It's not surprising when you count the worthless currencies with state-mandated exchange rates into the calculation. If you wanted to do things legally as a western company then you had to price everyone of the 25 million out. It was done precisely for that reason - to protect the uncompetitive internal market from western competition. Only the richest of the rich (literally few hundreds of people) could buy legally imported western electronics. It was available, even in the Eastern Bloc, but nobody had the money.
    - flohofwoe 3y ago
      Deals happened, but on a small scale. For instance, East Germany had so called "Intershops" stuffed full with western consumer products (also home computers), but those were sold for hard currency only, and their main purpose was to siphon off the circulating D-Marks which were coming into the country via relatives from West Germany, or to directly sell to western visitors, because some prices were cheaper than in Western Germany. From time to time Western companies also did one-time deals for industrial products (East Germany had a pretty good optics and mechanical engineering industry which could come up with competitive products from time to time, but usually such deals didn't benefit the general population).
tpm 3y ago
Except Austria, Finland, Yugoslavia, Albania (Enver Hoxha switched to China) and Greece and Turkey. So not everything at all.
salex89 3y ago
Yeah, it was so much under control that Yugoslavia and the USSR were at brink of war. It's more under Russian influence today than then.
- lproven 3y ago
  > It's more under Russian influence today than then. Yugoslavia no longer exists. While Serbia may be -- I've been there twice and it's a rather scary country -- the other fragments of Yugoslavia are far less so. Bosnia has a distinct Ottoman influence, while Croatia and Slovenia are very Western Europeanised indeed. I haven't been to Montenegro yet, but had the best beer I tasted in Bosnia was Montenegrin (as opposed to the awful Jelen). So, no: only one of its fragments, I think.
  - salex89 3y ago
    Of course, I meant Serbia since Galaksija comes from today's Serbia as well as it's creator, a very prominent man today. What was scary in Serbia? And I agree, Jelen is bottom of the barrel. Only worse than thet would be private store brands, and you might even find better than Jelen among them.
    - grujicd 3y ago
      There's nothing scary in Serbia - except Jelen and other domestic beers. Rakija could be scary as well, but only if you drink too much.
      - lproven 3y ago
        Oh, I don't know, one measure of it made me nervous. :-D But I don't usually drink spirits.
    - lproven 3y ago
      I went to the Guča trumpet festival. It's pretty intense. Things like rifles being fired into the air in the crowd at a music festival is scary to me. This is something I might associate with the Middle East, not Europe. The T-shirts on sale were another example. My Cyrillic is poor and my Czech is too but I can understand a bit. One was in English: "I am Vladimir Putin, and what I put in, stays there." The ones praising "war heroes" were worrying, too. On my train back to Budapest the last time I was there, the crop-haired older gentleman opposite me was reading "Ветеран" magazine and a biography of a general. The general impression I got was that here was a country whose sympathies lie East, not West. At the time, I lived in Czechia, and I drove to Guča with some friends. The cultural difference from where I lived and where we drove in a single day -- and we didn't drive fast -- was shocking. On my next visit, I had an overnight stop.
flohofwoe 3y ago
Yugoslavia was a bit of an exception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_split https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_split Yugoslavia wasn't member of the Warsaw Pact or the COMECON for instance, and apparently people were even allowed to travel to western countries. Famous message from Tito to Stalin: “Stop sending people to kill me. We've already captured five of them, one of them with a bomb and another with a rifle… If you don't stop sending killers, I'll send one to Moscow, and I won't have to send a second.”
anthk 3y ago
Ha, good joke. Yugoslavia wanted Stalin dead because Stalin tried to kill Tito twice up to the point of the Yugo Secret Service advicing Stalin that they should stop fucking around, if not they would get rid of Stalin themselves.

Everything East of the Iron Wall (German Divide) was under USSR control.

by nickpp 3y ago

Everything East of the Iron Wall (German Divide) was under USSR control.

Muromec 3y ago

But it’s Yougoslavia, it’s to the south

throwaway71271 3y ago
as they say, its in the name: land of the south slavs :)

hahamaster 3y ago

It was called iron curtain, not iron wall. Yugoslavia was in between the west and the east back then. We were not under USSR control. We could hop on a plane and fly to London any time we pleased, unlike for example, Hungarians or east Germans.

nickpp 3y ago
Interesting. I stand corrected, then.
- hahamaster 3y ago
  Thank you!

retrac 3y ago

Yes, but Yugoslavia wasn't behind the Iron Curtain. It wasn't aligned with the USSR. It wasn't under USSR control (after 1948 [1]). It was officially neutral during the Cold War (Yugoslavia founded the Non-Aligned Movement). Sometimes close to the USA, even receiving American military aid at times. Relevantly for us and this topic, Yugoslavia was not subject to the Western bans on exporting sensitive technology to Communist countries. Western personal computers and semiconductors could be legally imported, in theory, assuming you could afford them and the unfavourable exchange rates. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_split https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_split

flohofwoe 3y ago
Technically, import was legal into all Eastern Bloc countries, it's the export from a western country which was illegal because of the COCOM embargo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Multilateral_Export_Controls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Mul... I actually don't know if Yugoslavia was embargoed too though (technically, Yugoslavia wasn't part of the "Eastern Bloc"). But of course even without embargo the markets were just not interesting for western companies, because of the worthless currencies (for instance, 8-bit home computers didn't fall under the embargo, but they were still not generally available in shops, only on the grey market).
- thriftwy 3y ago
  It's a surprising sight to see Western companies showing no interest in 25 million strong economy.
  - throwaway50182 3y ago
    It's not surprising when you count the worthless currencies with state-mandated exchange rates into the calculation. If you wanted to do things legally as a western company then you had to price everyone of the 25 million out. It was done precisely for that reason - to protect the uncompetitive internal market from western competition. Only the richest of the rich (literally few hundreds of people) could buy legally imported western electronics. It was available, even in the Eastern Bloc, but nobody had the money.
  - flohofwoe 3y ago
    Deals happened, but on a small scale. For instance, East Germany had so called "Intershops" stuffed full with western consumer products (also home computers), but those were sold for hard currency only, and their main purpose was to siphon off the circulating D-Marks which were coming into the country via relatives from West Germany, or to directly sell to western visitors, because some prices were cheaper than in Western Germany. From time to time Western companies also did one-time deals for industrial products (East Germany had a pretty good optics and mechanical engineering industry which could come up with competitive products from time to time, but usually such deals didn't benefit the general population).

tpm 3y ago

Except Austria, Finland, Yugoslavia, Albania (Enver Hoxha switched to China) and Greece and Turkey. So not everything at all.

salex89 3y ago

Yeah, it was so much under control that Yugoslavia and the USSR were at brink of war. It's more under Russian influence today than then.

lproven 3y ago
> It's more under Russian influence today than then. Yugoslavia no longer exists. While Serbia may be -- I've been there twice and it's a rather scary country -- the other fragments of Yugoslavia are far less so. Bosnia has a distinct Ottoman influence, while Croatia and Slovenia are very Western Europeanised indeed. I haven't been to Montenegro yet, but had the best beer I tasted in Bosnia was Montenegrin (as opposed to the awful Jelen). So, no: only one of its fragments, I think.
- salex89 3y ago
  Of course, I meant Serbia since Galaksija comes from today's Serbia as well as it's creator, a very prominent man today. What was scary in Serbia? And I agree, Jelen is bottom of the barrel. Only worse than thet would be private store brands, and you might even find better than Jelen among them.
  - grujicd 3y ago
    There's nothing scary in Serbia - except Jelen and other domestic beers. Rakija could be scary as well, but only if you drink too much.
    - lproven 3y ago
      Oh, I don't know, one measure of it made me nervous. :-D But I don't usually drink spirits.
  - lproven 3y ago
    I went to the Guča trumpet festival. It's pretty intense. Things like rifles being fired into the air in the crowd at a music festival is scary to me. This is something I might associate with the Middle East, not Europe. The T-shirts on sale were another example. My Cyrillic is poor and my Czech is too but I can understand a bit. One was in English: "I am Vladimir Putin, and what I put in, stays there." The ones praising "war heroes" were worrying, too. On my train back to Budapest the last time I was there, the crop-haired older gentleman opposite me was reading "Ветеран" magazine and a biography of a general. The general impression I got was that here was a country whose sympathies lie East, not West. At the time, I lived in Czechia, and I drove to Guča with some friends. The cultural difference from where I lived and where we drove in a single day -- and we didn't drive fast -- was shocking. On my next visit, I had an overnight stop.

flohofwoe 3y ago

Yugoslavia was a bit of an exception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_split https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_split Yugoslavia wasn't member of the Warsaw Pact or the COMECON for instance, and apparently people were even allowed to travel to western countries. Famous message from Tito to Stalin: “Stop sending people to kill me. We've already captured five of them, one of them with a bomb and another with a rifle… If you don't stop sending killers, I'll send one to Moscow, and I won't have to send a second.”

anthk 3y ago

Ha, good joke. Yugoslavia wanted Stalin dead because Stalin tried to kill Tito twice up to the point of the Yugo Secret Service advicing Stalin that they should stop fucking around, if not they would get rid of Stalin themselves.