12 ms·

I have a similar story. In my hometown the owner of the Mercedes salon paid money for each emblem that was broken of a car's hood. It was around 2000-2005. I kn

I have a similar story. In my hometown the owner of the Mercedes salon paid money for each emblem that was broken of a car's hood. It was around 2000-2005. I know this from the owner's son.

rdtsc 3y ago
That is sneaky! That could backfire, too, if someone got a hold of box of those things from somewhere else. “This guy pays $10 for each so we got a box from Ali Express and sold it to him”.
- robertlutece 3y ago
  the cobra effect The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, enterprising people began to breed cobras for the income. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive
  - simonh 3y ago
    The French tried this with rats in Vietnam, with the same result.
    - kryptiskt 3y ago
      The same thing happens in software development when finding or fixing bugs are rewarded.
    - Stratoscope 3y ago
      This was the Great Hanoi Rat Massacre of 1902. French officials wanted a lifestyle more like home, including flush toilets. So they built a sewer system. It was a perfect breeding ground for rats. Now, Hanoi had a rat problem. They hired exterminators, but it wasn't enough. So they offered a bounty to anyone who would kill a rat and bring in the severed tail as proof. It was much easier for them to dispose of a collection of rat tails instead of entire rat carcasses. The locals quickly figured out that you could remove a rat's tail without killing it, and send it back into the sewers to breed more rats with fresh young tails. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hanoi-rat-massacre-1902 https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hanoi-rat-massacre-190... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hanoi_Rat_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hanoi_Rat_Massacre Here is an article that ties together the rat massacre, the cobra effect, factory workers' gloves, overtime pay, and heat-based bonuses: https://www.corporate-rebels.com/blog/leaders-rules https://www.corporate-rebels.com/blog/leaders-rules
      - fragmede 3y ago
        I wonder if, with the proliferation of smartphones, any government will try it again with more rules to maker it harder to game, like limiting the number that will be paid out, and requiring video evidence of the kill. It's harder to
        ben_w 3y ago
        If they do, they'll be ignoring the last 12 months of "oh hey these generative AI can make pictures of anything now". Note that I'm not saying they won't, just that it's a bad idea in a new and exciting way.
        lesuorac 3y ago
        I think you should really just require the corpse; if somebody wants to setup a trap it should be fine for them to bring a bucket of 30 corpses instead of a video where an official has to count to 30. I suspect if you time-box the reward that'll fix the cobra effect problem. Announce that you'll only pay for dead rats for ~4 months and at least in the final month people should realize that its time to kill the golden goose and provide all the rats they have instead of breeding for more.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    you left out the best/worst part! > When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. When cobra breeders set their now-worthless snakes free, the wild cobra population further increased.
nwiswell 3y ago
Hm, seems like a way to put people off owning a Mercedes at all...
- hnbad 3y ago
  You'd think that but some people really like being able to claim persecution while in a position of power and wealth.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    The Mercedes wagons from the 60s were not luxury cars. They were used as taxis in Europe.
    - distances 3y ago
      Mercedes is still very common as a taxi in Europe. Taxis in general are often much nicer and more expensive cars than what people buy privately.
    - anjel 3y ago
      The iconic Checker cab Company took the opposite marketing approach, selling overly sturdy sedans to private owners. They died on that hill.
    - barrkel 3y ago
      Regulated taxis across most of Europe are generally upmarket cars. Things like luggage space have regulated minimums that prevent using smaller cars.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        Upmarket doesn't mean "wealthy and powerful". Have you ever seen a 180D?
        barrkel 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
csharpminor 3y ago
There are so many examples of this in the auto world, e.g. the Big Motor scandal in Japan where the corruption was at both the dealerships and a major insurer: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2023/09/08/companies/sompo-japan-big-motor-insurance/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2023/09/08/companies/s... The “better” car companies simply design systems that force more labor hours into regular maintenance. For example, BMW’s ingenious battery placement that allows them to bill $700-$900 for 5 hours worth of work. Oh, and changing your own battery will void the warranty. Fortunately for BMW most of their clientele has enough money to not care.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > changing your own battery will void the warranty Not in the US it won’t. See Magnusson Moss: 2302.c here: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title15-chapter50&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prel...
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    This always gets trotted out like some sort of 'gotcha bitch!' card you can just drop on a company. Then they just roll over and do whatever you want. You'd have to be a lawyer to make that act work for you.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      Automakers absolutely know this law and my experiences with warranty coverage (as an exclusive DIYer for literally everything except warranty work, tires, and paint) is that they readily and voluntarily follow it.
- itronitron 3y ago
  A classmate of mine happened to mention once that for some early models of a particular Japanese car manufacturer (1980's I think) the engine would need to be removed in order to change the oil.
oldbbsnickname 3y ago
That's hilarious. Mercedes had a checkered repair history, especially US models that don't have a German equivalent or are post-merger frankensteins. Mostly, mascot or emblem theft was a 90's media-generated gangster thing limited primarily to higher-crime areas to wear car emblems on a chain, so maybe they were gopniks but 15 years too late. Also why Rolls Royce invented the retracting bonnet mascot. They early ones were silver plated and later ones were optionally gold plated. (Of course like Porsches, Rolls Royce can and are customized, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if a solid platinum or palladium Spirit of Ecstasy exists.) 80's BMWs, Cadillacs, and Jaguars were big money makers for my dad. His dad and him bemoaned that they could've made more money if only they were dishonest. They both had experience working at dealerships as mechanics. They saw more tactics than these: - Charging for parts not replaced (which is why you always ask to see the old parts) - Magically finding other things wrong that need expensive, unnecessary parts (which is why you always get a written estimate before leaving, and appear to have a somewhat understanding of what constitutes the vehicle) - Eyewash: overselling standard procedures or aspirational steps not performed, usually with the purpose of justifying higher prices and/or increasing customer satisfaction (if there's too much marketing, then you're the mark) Also: In the US, the Better Business Bureau (BBB) is 99.8% a confidence scam: it's a for-profit marketing company that sells a false appearance of authority and credibility with negligible actual due-diligence or accountability.

I have a similar story. In my hometown the owner of the Mercedes salon paid money for each emblem that was broken of a car's hood. It was around 2000-2005. I know this from the owner's son.

rdtsc 3y ago

That is sneaky! That could backfire, too, if someone got a hold of box of those things from somewhere else. “This guy pays $10 for each so we got a box from Ali Express and sold it to him”.

robertlutece 3y ago
the cobra effect The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, enterprising people began to breed cobras for the income. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive
- simonh 3y ago
  The French tried this with rats in Vietnam, with the same result.
  - kryptiskt 3y ago
    The same thing happens in software development when finding or fixing bugs are rewarded.
  - Stratoscope 3y ago
    This was the Great Hanoi Rat Massacre of 1902. French officials wanted a lifestyle more like home, including flush toilets. So they built a sewer system. It was a perfect breeding ground for rats. Now, Hanoi had a rat problem. They hired exterminators, but it wasn't enough. So they offered a bounty to anyone who would kill a rat and bring in the severed tail as proof. It was much easier for them to dispose of a collection of rat tails instead of entire rat carcasses. The locals quickly figured out that you could remove a rat's tail without killing it, and send it back into the sewers to breed more rats with fresh young tails. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hanoi-rat-massacre-1902 https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hanoi-rat-massacre-190... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hanoi_Rat_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hanoi_Rat_Massacre Here is an article that ties together the rat massacre, the cobra effect, factory workers' gloves, overtime pay, and heat-based bonuses: https://www.corporate-rebels.com/blog/leaders-rules https://www.corporate-rebels.com/blog/leaders-rules
    - fragmede 3y ago
      I wonder if, with the proliferation of smartphones, any government will try it again with more rules to maker it harder to game, like limiting the number that will be paid out, and requiring video evidence of the kill. It's harder to
      - ben_w 3y ago
        If they do, they'll be ignoring the last 12 months of "oh hey these generative AI can make pictures of anything now". Note that I'm not saying they won't, just that it's a bad idea in a new and exciting way.
      - lesuorac 3y ago
        I think you should really just require the corpse; if somebody wants to setup a trap it should be fine for them to bring a bucket of 30 corpses instead of a video where an official has to count to 30. I suspect if you time-box the reward that'll fix the cobra effect problem. Announce that you'll only pay for dead rats for ~4 months and at least in the final month people should realize that its time to kill the golden goose and provide all the rats they have instead of breeding for more.
- fragmede 3y ago
  you left out the best/worst part! > When the government became aware of this, the reward program was scrapped. When cobra breeders set their now-worthless snakes free, the wild cobra population further increased.

nwiswell 3y ago

Hm, seems like a way to put people off owning a Mercedes at all...

hnbad 3y ago
You'd think that but some people really like being able to claim persecution while in a position of power and wealth.
- WalterBright 3y ago
  The Mercedes wagons from the 60s were not luxury cars. They were used as taxis in Europe.
  - distances 3y ago
    Mercedes is still very common as a taxi in Europe. Taxis in general are often much nicer and more expensive cars than what people buy privately.
  - anjel 3y ago
    The iconic Checker cab Company took the opposite marketing approach, selling overly sturdy sedans to private owners. They died on that hill.
  - barrkel 3y ago
    Regulated taxis across most of Europe are generally upmarket cars. Things like luggage space have regulated minimums that prevent using smaller cars.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      Upmarket doesn't mean "wealthy and powerful". Have you ever seen a 180D?
      - barrkel 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

csharpminor 3y ago

There are so many examples of this in the auto world, e.g. the Big Motor scandal in Japan where the corruption was at both the dealerships and a major insurer: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2023/09/08/companies/sompo-japan-big-motor-insurance/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2023/09/08/companies/s... The “better” car companies simply design systems that force more labor hours into regular maintenance. For example, BMW’s ingenious battery placement that allows them to bill $700-$900 for 5 hours worth of work. Oh, and changing your own battery will void the warranty. Fortunately for BMW most of their clientele has enough money to not care.

sokoloff 3y ago
> changing your own battery will void the warranty Not in the US it won’t. See Magnusson Moss: 2302.c here: https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title15-chapter50&edition=prelim https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prel...
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  This always gets trotted out like some sort of 'gotcha bitch!' card you can just drop on a company. Then they just roll over and do whatever you want. You'd have to be a lawyer to make that act work for you.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Automakers absolutely know this law and my experiences with warranty coverage (as an exclusive DIYer for literally everything except warranty work, tires, and paint) is that they readily and voluntarily follow it.
itronitron 3y ago
A classmate of mine happened to mention once that for some early models of a particular Japanese car manufacturer (1980's I think) the engine would need to be removed in order to change the oil.

oldbbsnickname 3y ago

That's hilarious. Mercedes had a checkered repair history, especially US models that don't have a German equivalent or are post-merger frankensteins. Mostly, mascot or emblem theft was a 90's media-generated gangster thing limited primarily to higher-crime areas to wear car emblems on a chain, so maybe they were gopniks but 15 years too late. Also why Rolls Royce invented the retracting bonnet mascot. They early ones were silver plated and later ones were optionally gold plated. (Of course like Porsches, Rolls Royce can and are customized, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if a solid platinum or palladium Spirit of Ecstasy exists.) 80's BMWs, Cadillacs, and Jaguars were big money makers for my dad. His dad and him bemoaned that they could've made more money if only they were dishonest. They both had experience working at dealerships as mechanics. They saw more tactics than these: - Charging for parts not replaced (which is why you always ask to see the old parts) - Magically finding other things wrong that need expensive, unnecessary parts (which is why you always get a written estimate before leaving, and appear to have a somewhat understanding of what constitutes the vehicle) - Eyewash: overselling standard procedures or aspirational steps not performed, usually with the purpose of justifying higher prices and/or increasing customer satisfaction (if there's too much marketing, then you're the mark) Also: In the US, the Better Business Bureau (BBB) is 99.8% a confidence scam: it's a for-profit marketing company that sells a false appearance of authority and credibility with negligible actual due-diligence or accountability.