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A BART seat-slashing gang that was part of an upholstery racket (2019)
- HideousKojima 3y agoMakes me wonder if window repair companies like to get in on rioting to boost their revenue: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsDQDDrL9Yo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hsDQDDrL9Yo
- fragmede 3y agoThis is why we can't have nice things :/
- UberFly 3y agoYes. I always wonder what a paradise we'd have if people's first impulse was to do what's best for those around them.
- n1b0m 3y agoTry Japan
- BobbyJo 3y agoHave you seen Japan's homeless?
- shiroiuma 3y agoI live here, and no, there really aren't very many of them, unlike America where they're everywhere in huge encampments. Japan actually has social services to help homeless people and provide them shelter; the ones you see are people who refuse help.
- refurb 3y agoCan homeless Japanese set up a tent on a sidewalk in the heart of Tokyo? What I’ve seen in other countries is that there certainly are homeless, but the attitude is “you go to a shelter or you go to jail”. Does wonders for keeping visible homeless to a minimum.
- tetris11 3y agoSame in London. You see large groups of them under bridges sometimes, but then a few days later they're all rounded up and just gone. I'd like to believe that they're under Shelter protection, but the cynic in me k ows that they've just been relocated out of the public eye.
- shiroiuma 3y ago>Can homeless Japanese set up a tent on a sidewalk in the heart of Tokyo? I don't know, but I seriously doubt it. I generally only see them in certain public parks. There's one weird encampment in some woods next to one of the rivers, in a large park that's on a flood plain; not exactly easy to find or heavily trafficked.
- automatic6131 3y ago>Can homeless Japanese set up a tent on a sidewalk in the heart of Tokyo? Yes. I encountered a homeless person in the CBD of Tokyo, sleeping in the bushes of a (very small) divider between a main road. Almost totally hidden, by those bushes. With enough items to look like they'd been there a while.
- hgdfhgfdhgdf 3y agoJapan spends $6k on average per homeless a year. The USA spends 5 times that.
- shiroiuma 3y agoTo be honest, I don't know much about homelessness in Japan besides what little I've read online, and what I actually see in public (and considering how much I walk around different places, I do see a lot of places). Anyway, I suspect this is probably another case where America spends a ton of money on stuff, but does so poorly and with bad effect. Just look at healthcare: the US spends far more per person than any other country, but outcomes are pretty lousy on average because it's so unequal and because treatment costs a fortune compared to anyplace else. I'm sure many other spending comparisons between the US and other nations are similar. How much money has the US spent on high-speed rail in California without getting much done?
- unicornmama 3y agoWe have it nice in Switzerland.
- 4ggr0 3y agoDon't forget that our paradise-like living standards require cheap labor and blood & sweat from other, not so well-off countries. To me, a paradise would be self-sustainable without exploiting others. Same can be said about other western countries.
- c420 3y ago[flagged]
- shiroiuma 3y agoWow, what an ignorant response. I live here and have never seen whale meat or pixelated porn anywhere in public spaces. But back in America I saw people carrying guns around in public all the time; it wasn't just some stupid internet meme or some ultra-rare thing.
- Mashimo 3y agoHave you ever seen a Bigmotor car dealership?
- c420 3y agoI love Japan, I just wouldn't characterize it as a paradise. Though I admit your criticism is apt if we're purely speaking about pubic spaces. I think most people are now aware of the yearly dolphin drive hunt in Taiji and how the whaling industry continues to harpoon hundreds of whales every year under the guise of studying their migrations, even with demand for the meat dropping every year. Scroll down to the "pornographic censorship" section: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Japan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Japan Yeah, I'm American, but I never said this was paradise. On the contrary, I could give much better reasons why it's not than your example of open carry laws. But let's not play "whatabout", as your public spaces argument is legit.
- shiroiuma 3y agoI'm not going to defend the whaling and dolphin or censorhip stuff, I'm just pointing out that when we're talking about people mistreating public spaces/property, public behavior, etc., these things really aren't relevant and every country has its policy flaws. Women in Japan don't have any trouble getting an abortion if they need one, and don't have to worry about one part of the country trying to prosecute them for going to another part of the country for a medical service that some religious politician has banned. And no one in Japan has to worry much about people with automatic weapons going on shooting rampages.
- Mashimo 3y agoUhh, they did a similar thing over there. Bigmotor https://youtu.be/ENl3eh1o-SM https://youtu.be/ENl3eh1o-SM > Bigmotor allegedly inflated insurance claims after employees intentionally damaged vehicles, in some cases with screwdrivers or golf balls. Japan's three major nonlife insurance companies stopped doing business with Bigmotor in June 2022 in response to the allegations.
- unicornmama 3y agoImagine if wealthy Bay Area denizens would focus their resources to take care of those around them. Instead they occupy their time with the endless pursuit of vanity, wealth without purpose, and decadence.
- raverbashing 3y agoYou mean the landlords and NIMBYs right?
- atdrummond 3y agoThe Bay Area has some of the most generous taxpayers in the country. The issue isn’t the amount of resources.
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago“most generous taxpayers” is quite the turn of phrase
- FredPret 3y agoThey could easily save a bundle of taxes by moving somewhere else, or at least moving their money. Some lower-tax (lower than California) destinations are incredible places to live as well - it’s not a choice between anarcho-capitalism and California. So there’s at least a tiny bit of generosity there.
- TaylorAlexander 3y agoI do not think “generosity” of any sort plays in here. They’re not considering leaving for personal reasons but deciding to stay to provide tax dollars to the state. They’re staying because they want to. They like it here, or it works well for their business to be here. I don’t see any reason to believe that generosity plays in to it. California, despite high taxes, is simply a nice place to live.
- kortilla 3y ago
- skrebbel 3y agoThis is most people’s first impulse. Don’t forget that the news only reports deviations from the norm. If it’s normal, it isn’t news.
- sparrowInHand 3y agoIts mostly a functional shizophrenic thing, to assume that everybody around you is out to get you and do the worst.
- mckn1ght 3y agoCan you imagine how thick each day’s newspaper would be if it mentioned all the nice–or even just neutral–things people do each day? There are billions of people on the planet. Plenty of good and good enough to go around.
- gongdzhauh 3y agoOne of the only newsletters I subscribe to is a weekly round up of all the good things that were under reported that week. https://futurecrunch.com/goodnews/ https://futurecrunch.com/goodnews/
- skrebbel 3y agoWow I love it. Thanks!
- kortilla 3y agoBut even a few ruin it completely.
- rand846633 3y agoDo they ruin it completely though?
- itronitron 3y agoThat really depends on how a person thinks about their community. For example, if my friends and family were in the upholstery business...
- esafak 3y agoHe lives in the Bay Area and this is the best idea he can come up with to make money. What an idiot.
- INTPenis 3y agoThis is just a very clear cut example of how an unregulated market will never work. People will chase money and power by any means.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoThis is not typically what is referred to by “unregulated market”. This is just people vandalizing public property who need to be prosecuted for it. There are no market regulations that can prevent this.
- INTPenis 3y agoNot just people, people hired by the business selling the repairs. Didn't you read the article? Businessmen are not beyond hiring thugs to commit crimes in order to increase their revenue. This is a sign that people cannot be trusted to regulate their own market. People will do anything they can to increase their profits. That's why an unregulated market can never work. Just simple human psychology.
- hamstergene 3y agoWhen the only measure of success is cashflow, things are doomed to converge on ugly messes sometimes, because that is what max cashflow randomly happened to produce, and no one has ever promised that max cashflow == peak social development.
- carbocation 3y ago> BART filed a $2.16 million civil suit against Hurwitz, which was pending in Alameda County Superior Court as of 1982. It's unclear what became of the case, and searches for news of the suit came up empty.
- neilv 3y agoIt wasn't an entirely novel idea. Around the same time, I saw a comic, something like a rock/brick tossed through a house's front window, with a note tied around it, like a stereotypical intimidation/threat. Except the note was an ad for a local window glass replacement service.
- YokoZar 3y agoThis was from The Far Side. The image depicts a broken window and a man reading a piece of paper presumably attached to the brick, with the note "Bricks thrown thru your window? Call Al's Glass" and then a phone number. While searching for it I found the comic appeared as homework in a marketing class, with this wonderful student asking for help explaining the underlying marketing techniques: https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/questions-and-answers/2-83-7-7-7-ylland-bricks-thrown-thru-window-call-al-s-glass-555-1232-classic-far-side-cart-q70468039 https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/questions-and-answers/2-...
- ikt 3y agoand then before this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
- gostsamo 3y agoWasn't there a Charlie Chaplin movie with a similar premis? A child walks the street and breaks windows while a glass fixer walks a few minutes later and announces their services.
- HanClinto 3y ago"The Kid" -- here's the scene you're referencing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izqhtBPd4VQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izqhtBPd4VQ
- kotaKat 3y agoThe 2023 version of a brick-through-the-window, as an aside: The note reads something like this: BY ACCEPTING THIS BRICK THROUGH YOUR WINDOW, YOU ACCEPT IT AS IS AND AGREE TO MY DISCLAIMER OF ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, AS WELL AS DISCLAIMERS OF ALL LIABILITY, DIRECT, INDIRECT, CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL, THAT MAY ARISE FROM THE INSTALLATION OF THIS BRICK INTO YOUR BUILDING.
- bradgessler 3y agoI still can't believe how long BART had fabric seats and carpeted trains. I think they finally have removed all of those cars from service.
- switch007 3y agoWe love our fabric on trains in the UK. It’s disgusting. Carpet gets immediately ruined with beer and vomit, as most trains turn in to parties on wheels a lot of the time. Even the brand new Elizabeth Line in London has fabric seats. We just can’t shake our traditions in the face of obvious hygiene sense.
- Muromec 3y agoI can’t fail to notice that not vomiting on a train isn’t even considered.
- _nalply 3y agoHaha, this sentence has four negations.
- ggambetta 3y agoHave you ever taken the Night Tube? :(
- switch007 3y agoIn an ideal world, of course. It's illegal to be intoxicated on the railway (and on the TfL network in London, carrying open alcohol containers and drinking alcohol is banned), but enforcement is very, very low. It would require a huge cultural change to alcohol in this country which nobody seems willing to embrace. Hilariously we also have "beer trail" services and routes, specifically designed to promote a pub crawl using trains. We really do have bad relationship with alcohol in the UK.
- noelwelsh 3y agoThe fabric on the London Underground is considered a design icon, to the extent the fabric is sold to the public: https://www.ltmuseumshop.co.uk/authentic-moquette-fabric-by-the-metre https://www.ltmuseumshop.co.uk/authentic-moquette-fabric-by-... You protest too much.
- hereforcomments 3y agoI have a similar story. In my hometown the owner of the Mercedes salon paid money for each emblem that was broken of a car's hood. It was around 2000-2005. I know this from the owner's son.
- rdtsc 3y agoThat is sneaky! That could backfire, too, if someone got a hold of box of those things from somewhere else. “This guy pays $10 for each so we got a box from Ali Express and sold it to him”.
- robertlutece 3y agothe cobra effect The British government, concerned about the number of venomous cobras in Delhi, offered a bounty for every dead cobra. Initially, this was a successful strategy; large numbers of snakes were killed for the reward. Eventually, however, enterprising people began to breed cobras for the income. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive
- simonh 3y agoThe French tried this with rats in Vietnam, with the same result.
- kryptiskt 3y agoThe same thing happens in software development when finding or fixing bugs are rewarded.
- Stratoscope 3y agoThis was the Great Hanoi Rat Massacre of 1902. French officials wanted a lifestyle more like home, including flush toilets. So they built a sewer system. It was a perfect breeding ground for rats. Now, Hanoi had a rat problem. They hired exterminators, but it wasn't enough. So they offered a bounty to anyone who would kill a rat and bring in the severed tail as proof. It was much easier for them to dispose of a collection of rat tails instead of entire rat carcasses. The locals quickly figured out that you could remove a rat's tail without killing it, and send it back into the sewers to breed more rats with fresh young tails. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hanoi-rat-massacre-1902 https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hanoi-rat-massacre-190... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hanoi_Rat_Massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hanoi_Rat_Massacre Here is an article that ties together the rat massacre, the cobra effect, factory workers' gloves, overtime pay, and heat-based bonuses: https://www.corporate-rebels.com/blog/leaders-rules https://www.corporate-rebels.com/blog/leaders-rules
- UberFly 3y ago"BART filed a $2.16 million civil suit against Hurwitz, which was pending in Alameda County Superior Court as of 1982. It's unclear what became of the case, and searches for news of the suit came up empty." And herein began the second scam...
- b112 3y agoYour meaning is unclear to me. Please clarify.
- ClassyJacket 3y agoWhy was this a civil suit? Shouldn't they have criminal charges for vandalism?
- local_crmdgeon 3y agoWe don't do that in the bay.
- YokoZar 3y agoAccording to the article, the criminal charges against that specific defendant were dropped
- b112 3y agoThe article states 3 of 4 were charged, and convicted, likely there wasn't enough evidence for the 4th. Note that someone can sue(state/county/etc), and still have criminal charges.
- pengaru 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_fallacy
- pkulak 3y agoOtherwise known as a “perverse incentive”, or “the cobra effect”, for when a bounty was created to get rid of the snakes, causing people to breed them instead of hunt them.
- fbdab103 3y agoSo the mistake was in outsourcing the crime. Had they kept a tighter circle of perpetrators, probably could have kept the scam going for significantly longer.
- INTPenis 3y agoNo they needed more anonymity and serparation in their out sourcing, so it couldn't be traced back to anyone wanting to slash seats for a particular reason.
- Traubenfuchs 3y agoMy parents lived in an apartment, several apartments in our house got broken into. My dad went to a reinforced door company to get a quote. It was almost 10.000€, a ridiculous amount! We didn‘t get it. A month later we had a break in while I was home alone. He took off when he saw me. We got the door. Now we got a bulletproof 10.000€ door. To this day I am convinced the door company sent the burglar.
- Terr_ 3y agoAlternately, there are some burglars that happen to have an informant inside the company giving them tips. It seems like a great way to identify potential marks, by looking for victims who (A) believe they have enough portable wealth that they are considering expensive security measures and (B) don't yet have any of those security measures already in place.
- shim__ 3y agoWhy are people so focussed on doors? Glass windows will always be the weak spot.
- ciceryadam 3y ago> My parents lived in an apartment Most of the apartments are in multi-story buildings.
- Traubenfuchs 3y agoI assume this is the division between people that consider apartment living the default versus those that consider living in houses with outside-accessible windows the default.
- hnbad 3y agoI wonder, grafitti aside[0], how much of the social panic around "vandalism" can be tied to similar dynamics. Not necessarily outright rackets like this one but perverse incentives at least. Also it's easy to see how slashing a seat or breaking a window is vandalism but somehow we've decided anti-homeless architecture and literring pedestrian spaces with subsidized rental e-scooters isn't even if it also drastically reduces quality of life by modifying shared public spaces. [0]: I dislike how grafitti and defacement is lumped in with functional damage as "vandalism" except for rare cases like road signs. I like to think that there is a tangible difference between changing the appearance of something and damaging it in such a way that it is no longer fully fit for purpose. Even if one believes that "maintaining property value" is a primary purpose of a building's wall or "providing ad space" is a primary purpose of a train exterior, I'd argue that there is a clear moral difference.
- spoonjim 3y agoSuch rampant pillaging of taxpayer dollars should have been more severely punished. If I was on a jury I would have sent them to jail for 20 years and slept well that night.
- oldbbsnickname 3y agoThe ol' thumbtacks on the street near the tire-shop routine... but actually doing it. BART should've just stopped replacing them because it was already depressing and created a feeling of unease even when it was just a few years old. BART is a symptom of the dysfunctional, lower-classing of American mass-transit in contrast to masses of unyielding cultural exaltation of the single occupant vehicle in gridlock. Hurray that they dug a tunnel under the Bay, but scant few actually want to board a tram that seems perpetually foreshadowing of an escape room or serial killer scene.
- fragmede 3y agoAverage weekday ridership of around 172,000 hardly seems like scant few, but I'll say that the new trains are nice.
- local_crmdgeon 3y agoIt would be higher if they gave a shit about cleaning up the system. SF's coddling of dangerous people shitting and smoking meth everywhere is insane. Also, 172k is a 75% of Brampton's bus system - from suburban Toronto: https://www.blogto.com/city/2023/07/brampton-beats-out-major-us-cities-riding-bus/ https://www.blogto.com/city/2023/07/brampton-beats-out-major... Enforce anti-social/QoL laws, allow construction, and prosecute crime and I bet BART would see double it's 2019 ridership.
- amanaplanacanal 3y agoI’m not sure what enforcement would even look like. There aren’t enough jail cells and mental health treatment. And nobody wants to pay what it would cost.
- local_crmdgeon 3y agoThat's a pathetic fact for California, the richest part of the richest country in the world.
- 3y ago
- ndyg 3y agoI'm not sure if it's still the case since we moved away a few years ago, but the 24th St BART escalator used to be in a constant repair loop. It would get fixed for a short period, operate for about a month, and then go back to being out of service. Made me question if a similar scheme was in operation.
- culopatin 3y agoIf it was the Glen park station I would also question it, but 24th station is a pretty rough place, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was actually being messed with.