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I want to seriously question what you mean by "History". The history I understand places blame on the British Empire and the neo Israeli State. My understandi

I want to seriously question what you mean by "History". The history I understand places blame on the British Empire and the neo Israeli State. My understanding of this situation is that terrorism is initiated by Islamic jihadists. The environment that allows those jihadists to thrive is created by Israel. The Gaza strip, is the poster child of how to create an adversarial environment that breeds terrorism.

tguvot 3y ago
actually... after arabs rejected partition plan and Israel fought it independence war, Egypt took over Gaza strip and Jordan over entire west bank. Instead of establishing there Palestinian state Jordan annexed west bank at 1950 and Egypt fenced off gaza strip with all palestinians. For next 20 years it was the state of affairs till Israel took over the territories in 1967. So maybe it's Egypt fault ? When peace agreement with Egypt was signed, it refused to take back Gaza. So maybe it's Egypt Fault ? And extra fun fact: there is UN report dated 1982 or something which described effects of Israeli occupation. The outcome was modern infrastructure, literacy rate jumping up by tens of percent, infant deaths falling down and life expectancy going up by 10 or 15 years. If this is " poster child of how to create an adversarial environment that breeds terrorism.", well...
- Prickle 3y ago
  The amount of revisionist history here is a bit absurd. Let us make it clear. Israel outright denied multiple partition maps. Israel had the advantage of being on the side designing the UN maps too. It is incredibly well known that most of the maps proposed by Israel included Jerusalem as exclusively Israeli territory. They also allocated more land to Israel than the Arabs, despite having less than half the population. On average, 60% of the land, going to less than 30% of the population. No fucking shit the Arabs were having none of it. So no, that's a completely stupid and nonsense argument. Egypt closing the border? You forgot the time period. Everyone has closed borders. Egypt was one of them. And either way, this is irrelevant. Israel kicked out Palestinians, not Egypt. Further more, you claim the increase in education is some sort of Israeli achievement. It is not. It is literally the global trend in literacy throughout at the time. You could literally say the same thing about Japan, China, India. Finally, Gaza itself. Look at the west bank. Do you see hamas attacking from there? No. It is from Lebanon and Gaza. Why? Because Palestinians can actually have a life in the WestBank. Because Gaza is a literal 1:1 open air prison. Digging wells is illegal, all Gaza water is owned by Israel Fishing is illegal. All water rights are owned by Israel. (Not a joke) Exports are almost completely illegal. Imports as well. Business is mostly illegal, primarily to "stop hamas from acquiring funds". Immigration is also illegal. You are only allowed to leave with a work visa. Good luck getting one. Education is practically non existent. Ironically, Israel has literally demolished multiple schools in Gaza. People born in Gaza basically cannot leave. So you have a poorly educated, frustrated population. Tons of spare time, nothing they can do. And then along comes Hamas. "Hey kiddo, wanna see the outside world?"
  - tguvot 3y ago
    there are too many alternative facts in your post . i will refer to only one. or two >It is literally the global trend in literacy throughout at the time. You could literally say the same thing about Japan, China, India. gaza was both occupied by egypt and fenced off by egypt, unlike joran that annexed west bank. israel brought to gaza electricity, phones, sewage systems. built hospitals and schools. "global trends" do not make things happen. people make things happen >Look at the west bank. Do you see hamas attacking from there? No. It is from Lebanon and Gaza. Why? Because Palestinians can actually have a life in the WestBank. so, after Hamas massacred PA authority/PLO people in gaza (you know, throwing people from buildings, drugging them behind cars) in 2007, PA in west bank spends considerable efforts to eradicate hamas from west bank. Hamas is mortal enemy of PA in west bank. PA in west bank has deep security cooperation with Israel in order to deal hamas. No hamas > no rockets&mortars flying to Israel > people can live a good life. So please, don't confuse cause and consequences. Take a look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_... and compare it to timeline at which blockade was established and try to see how many of those attacks took place from West Bank
    - Prickle 3y ago
      > gaza was both occupied by egypt and fenced off by egypt, unlike joran that annexed west bank. israel brought to gaza electricity, phones, sewage systems. built hospitals and schools. "global trends" do not make things happen. people make things happen Yea no. That is actually just not relevant. Once again, this is a global trend! Massive infrastructure projects, massive new investments in the economy. Post war economic miracle. Global trends are literally set by people. Literacy rates were increasing rapidly during that time. Medical technologies saw massive investment and growth due to the experience of, and aftermath of a global war. > so, after Hamas massacred PA authority/PLO people in gaza (you know, throwing people from buildings, drugging them behind cars) in 2007, PA in west bank spends considerable efforts to eradicate hamas from west bank. Hamas is mortal enemy of PA in west bank. PA in west bank has deep security cooperation with Israel in order to deal hamas. This is literally my point! Israel can, and has that ability to fight Hamas in the west bank! And now because Gaza is a convenient political tool, the PA have started losing votes to Hamas in recent elections in the west bank! None of that would happen, were it not for keeping Gaza as a literal open air prison! Your view is literally the opposite of reality. > Good Life => No reason to join radical terrorist group => Hamas weakens.
poisonarena 3y ago
this guy is listening to chapo
raxxorraxor 3y ago
[flagged]

tguvot 3y ago

actually... after arabs rejected partition plan and Israel fought it independence war, Egypt took over Gaza strip and Jordan over entire west bank. Instead of establishing there Palestinian state Jordan annexed west bank at 1950 and Egypt fenced off gaza strip with all palestinians. For next 20 years it was the state of affairs till Israel took over the territories in 1967. So maybe it's Egypt fault ? When peace agreement with Egypt was signed, it refused to take back Gaza. So maybe it's Egypt Fault ? And extra fun fact: there is UN report dated 1982 or something which described effects of Israeli occupation. The outcome was modern infrastructure, literacy rate jumping up by tens of percent, infant deaths falling down and life expectancy going up by 10 or 15 years. If this is " poster child of how to create an adversarial environment that breeds terrorism.", well...

Prickle 3y ago
The amount of revisionist history here is a bit absurd. Let us make it clear. Israel outright denied multiple partition maps. Israel had the advantage of being on the side designing the UN maps too. It is incredibly well known that most of the maps proposed by Israel included Jerusalem as exclusively Israeli territory. They also allocated more land to Israel than the Arabs, despite having less than half the population. On average, 60% of the land, going to less than 30% of the population. No fucking shit the Arabs were having none of it. So no, that's a completely stupid and nonsense argument. Egypt closing the border? You forgot the time period. Everyone has closed borders. Egypt was one of them. And either way, this is irrelevant. Israel kicked out Palestinians, not Egypt. Further more, you claim the increase in education is some sort of Israeli achievement. It is not. It is literally the global trend in literacy throughout at the time. You could literally say the same thing about Japan, China, India. Finally, Gaza itself. Look at the west bank. Do you see hamas attacking from there? No. It is from Lebanon and Gaza. Why? Because Palestinians can actually have a life in the WestBank. Because Gaza is a literal 1:1 open air prison. Digging wells is illegal, all Gaza water is owned by Israel Fishing is illegal. All water rights are owned by Israel. (Not a joke) Exports are almost completely illegal. Imports as well. Business is mostly illegal, primarily to "stop hamas from acquiring funds". Immigration is also illegal. You are only allowed to leave with a work visa. Good luck getting one. Education is practically non existent. Ironically, Israel has literally demolished multiple schools in Gaza. People born in Gaza basically cannot leave. So you have a poorly educated, frustrated population. Tons of spare time, nothing they can do. And then along comes Hamas. "Hey kiddo, wanna see the outside world?"
- tguvot 3y ago
  there are too many alternative facts in your post . i will refer to only one. or two >It is literally the global trend in literacy throughout at the time. You could literally say the same thing about Japan, China, India. gaza was both occupied by egypt and fenced off by egypt, unlike joran that annexed west bank. israel brought to gaza electricity, phones, sewage systems. built hospitals and schools. "global trends" do not make things happen. people make things happen >Look at the west bank. Do you see hamas attacking from there? No. It is from Lebanon and Gaza. Why? Because Palestinians can actually have a life in the WestBank. so, after Hamas massacred PA authority/PLO people in gaza (you know, throwing people from buildings, drugging them behind cars) in 2007, PA in west bank spends considerable efforts to eradicate hamas from west bank. Hamas is mortal enemy of PA in west bank. PA in west bank has deep security cooperation with Israel in order to deal hamas. No hamas > no rockets&mortars flying to Israel > people can live a good life. So please, don't confuse cause and consequences. Take a look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_... and compare it to timeline at which blockade was established and try to see how many of those attacks took place from West Bank
  - Prickle 3y ago
    > gaza was both occupied by egypt and fenced off by egypt, unlike joran that annexed west bank. israel brought to gaza electricity, phones, sewage systems. built hospitals and schools. "global trends" do not make things happen. people make things happen Yea no. That is actually just not relevant. Once again, this is a global trend! Massive infrastructure projects, massive new investments in the economy. Post war economic miracle. Global trends are literally set by people. Literacy rates were increasing rapidly during that time. Medical technologies saw massive investment and growth due to the experience of, and aftermath of a global war. > so, after Hamas massacred PA authority/PLO people in gaza (you know, throwing people from buildings, drugging them behind cars) in 2007, PA in west bank spends considerable efforts to eradicate hamas from west bank. Hamas is mortal enemy of PA in west bank. PA in west bank has deep security cooperation with Israel in order to deal hamas. This is literally my point! Israel can, and has that ability to fight Hamas in the west bank! And now because Gaza is a convenient political tool, the PA have started losing votes to Hamas in recent elections in the west bank! None of that would happen, were it not for keeping Gaza as a literal open air prison! Your view is literally the opposite of reality. > Good Life => No reason to join radical terrorist group => Hamas weakens.

poisonarena 3y ago

this guy is listening to chapo

raxxorraxor 3y ago

[flagged]