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Aren't your Kagi searches tied to a payment method? That it doesn't exploit you in every way possible is commendable, but stating that it "solves the privacy is

by juunpp 3y ago

Aren't your Kagi searches tied to a payment method? That it doesn't exploit you in every way possible is commendable, but stating that it "solves the privacy issues" is a long stretch.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Aren't your Kagi searches tied to a payment method? Kagi accepts Bitcoin [1]. They also “do not log searches or in any way tie them to an account” [2]. [1] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/payment-methods.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/payment-methods.html [2] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/privacy/privacy-protection.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/privacy/privacy-protection.html
- juunpp 3y ago
  Hmm, and apparently you can also ask it to block shit like pinterest from your search results?
  - hifikuno 3y ago
    This is one of my biggest loves of Kagi. I have all pintrest domain's blocked and it's great. And it's really easy to add a block too so when I get a result for a website that is useless or I don't like on to the blocklist it goes!
  - causality0 3y ago
    Being able to set up custom search weights would be cool. Like up-weighting results from sites you like and down-rating sites you don't.
    - bbatha 3y ago
      Yes it’s a pretty handy feature
    - pachouli-please 3y ago
      It can do exactly this, as well as outright blacklisting. Very good stuff
  - Lazare 3y ago
    Yes. Quite useful. Also groups listacle spam ("top 10 X" type articles).
    - flir 3y ago
      If they could group ecommerce sites in the same way they group listicles, that would be damn handy. (Just identifying sites with payment forms would go along way). It's not that I don't want ecommerce sites, it's just that sometimes I'm in research mode and sometimes I'm in shopping mode.
  - manonthewall 3y ago
    there are browser plugins that do this as well :) . uBlackList for one
- vunderba 3y ago
  They also “do not log searches or in any way tie them to an account”. So you essentially have to make the same leap of faith as you would with a commercial VPN.
  - beej71 3y ago
    Or with DDG.
  - juunpp 3y ago
    The VPN doesn't know what I search for, it "only" knows what host I connect to and all the associated metadata.
    - wutwutwat 3y ago
      Unless they MITM you and whatever app you’re using doesn’t do cert pinning, or they don’t have a legit root cert that they can sign completely valid certs with
      - hnben 3y ago
        > Unless they MITM you how high would you estimate the odds of this actually happening for lets say mullvad?
        wutwutwat 3y ago
        How would I know? There’s always a VPN new kid on the block everyone shills for. Used to be that ProtonVPN was our savior now it’s nobody even knows it exists. Point is unless you control every hop in the chain you can’t know it’s safe
      - juunpp 3y ago
        To MITM me they'd need the intermediate or root certs of whatever I am connecting to? I don't see how even pinning the cert would help if the chain is invalid to begin with.
- manonthewall 3y ago
  Do they provide "personalized results" like google claims? That would seem to imply they -must- attach searches to your account, wouldn't it?
  - Xerox9213 3y ago
    https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/website-info-personalized-results.html#personalized-results https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/website-info-personalize... AFAIK the personalized results are not based on your search history, rather a personalized list of blocked, lowered, raised, or pinned domains. I think some people share their lists, not unlike PiHole.
    - TisButMe 3y ago
      Heya, I work at Kagi. This is correct, we do not personalize searches other than by respecting the user's customizations (eg. domain preferences, lenses, etc...) which are all entirely user-controlled.
  - keybits 3y ago
    Looks like this could change in the future, quoting from my Kagi settings screen: > Save My Search History > Currently this option can not be turned on. Kagi does not save any searches by default. In the future we may add features that will utilize your search history and then we will allow you to enable this.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
  There were studies where it took as little as 10 searches to find out your exact identity. If you pay per month, month's worth of searches is more than enough to de-anonymize you. Ideal solution would involve pay-per-search.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    That's surprising given how I assume the pareto principle applies to search terms. >Ideal solution would involve pay-per-search. I guess if you're really hardcore and are willing to trigger a transaction per search. But in reality it doesn't work becsuse there's a small transaction fee for every charge. So it's really hard to charge below a dollar without major penalties. You can get around that with a token system, but we go right back to square one. I guess that's one problem crypto mitigates.
buzer 3y ago
They at least claim that they don't save the search history. https://help.kagi.com/kagi/settings/privacy.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/settings/privacy.html
Lazare 3y ago
A fair call, but to quote their privacy policy: > Unlike "free" search engines, we do not log searches or in any way tie them to an account. So if you trust them to do what they say, then yes, that pretty much solves the issue. If not, well...
- juunpp 3y ago
  Yeah, I don't trust startups in Palo Alto to do what they say.
- i_play_stax 3y ago
  Use a single use burner privacy.com card?
daft_pink 3y ago
It's not really about privacy. It's just a better experience on Kagi.
sillyfluke 3y ago
Seriously, on its face it's worse than google privacy wise because of the payment thing. Accept cash payment as some email providers and VPNs or stop telling people to trust you. And claiming Bitcoin changes anything privacy wise for the layman just blares red flags all over the place.

by juunpp 3y ago

Aren't your Kagi searches tied to a payment method? That it doesn't exploit you in every way possible is commendable, but stating that it "solves the privacy issues" is a long stretch.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> Aren't your Kagi searches tied to a payment method? Kagi accepts Bitcoin [1]. They also “do not log searches or in any way tie them to an account” [2]. [1] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/payment-methods.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/plans/payment-methods.html [2] https://help.kagi.com/kagi/privacy/privacy-protection.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/privacy/privacy-protection.html

juunpp 3y ago
Hmm, and apparently you can also ask it to block shit like pinterest from your search results?
- hifikuno 3y ago
  This is one of my biggest loves of Kagi. I have all pintrest domain's blocked and it's great. And it's really easy to add a block too so when I get a result for a website that is useless or I don't like on to the blocklist it goes!
- causality0 3y ago
  Being able to set up custom search weights would be cool. Like up-weighting results from sites you like and down-rating sites you don't.
  - bbatha 3y ago
    Yes it’s a pretty handy feature
  - pachouli-please 3y ago
    It can do exactly this, as well as outright blacklisting. Very good stuff
- Lazare 3y ago
  Yes. Quite useful. Also groups listacle spam ("top 10 X" type articles).
  - flir 3y ago
    If they could group ecommerce sites in the same way they group listicles, that would be damn handy. (Just identifying sites with payment forms would go along way). It's not that I don't want ecommerce sites, it's just that sometimes I'm in research mode and sometimes I'm in shopping mode.
- manonthewall 3y ago
  there are browser plugins that do this as well :) . uBlackList for one
vunderba 3y ago
They also “do not log searches or in any way tie them to an account”. So you essentially have to make the same leap of faith as you would with a commercial VPN.
- beej71 3y ago
  Or with DDG.
- juunpp 3y ago
  The VPN doesn't know what I search for, it "only" knows what host I connect to and all the associated metadata.
  - wutwutwat 3y ago
    Unless they MITM you and whatever app you’re using doesn’t do cert pinning, or they don’t have a legit root cert that they can sign completely valid certs with
    - hnben 3y ago
      > Unless they MITM you how high would you estimate the odds of this actually happening for lets say mullvad?
      - wutwutwat 3y ago
        How would I know? There’s always a VPN new kid on the block everyone shills for. Used to be that ProtonVPN was our savior now it’s nobody even knows it exists. Point is unless you control every hop in the chain you can’t know it’s safe
    - juunpp 3y ago
      To MITM me they'd need the intermediate or root certs of whatever I am connecting to? I don't see how even pinning the cert would help if the chain is invalid to begin with.
manonthewall 3y ago
Do they provide "personalized results" like google claims? That would seem to imply they -must- attach searches to your account, wouldn't it?
- Xerox9213 3y ago
  https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/website-info-personalized-results.html#personalized-results https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/website-info-personalize... AFAIK the personalized results are not based on your search history, rather a personalized list of blocked, lowered, raised, or pinned domains. I think some people share their lists, not unlike PiHole.
  - TisButMe 3y ago
    Heya, I work at Kagi. This is correct, we do not personalize searches other than by respecting the user's customizations (eg. domain preferences, lenses, etc...) which are all entirely user-controlled.
- keybits 3y ago
  Looks like this could change in the future, quoting from my Kagi settings screen: > Save My Search History > Currently this option can not be turned on. Kagi does not save any searches by default. In the future we may add features that will utilize your search history and then we will allow you to enable this.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
There were studies where it took as little as 10 searches to find out your exact identity. If you pay per month, month's worth of searches is more than enough to de-anonymize you. Ideal solution would involve pay-per-search.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  That's surprising given how I assume the pareto principle applies to search terms. >Ideal solution would involve pay-per-search. I guess if you're really hardcore and are willing to trigger a transaction per search. But in reality it doesn't work becsuse there's a small transaction fee for every charge. So it's really hard to charge below a dollar without major penalties. You can get around that with a token system, but we go right back to square one. I guess that's one problem crypto mitigates.

buzer 3y ago

They at least claim that they don't save the search history. https://help.kagi.com/kagi/settings/privacy.html https://help.kagi.com/kagi/settings/privacy.html

Lazare 3y ago

A fair call, but to quote their privacy policy: > Unlike "free" search engines, we do not log searches or in any way tie them to an account. So if you trust them to do what they say, then yes, that pretty much solves the issue. If not, well...

juunpp 3y ago
Yeah, I don't trust startups in Palo Alto to do what they say.
i_play_stax 3y ago
Use a single use burner privacy.com card?

daft_pink 3y ago

It's not really about privacy. It's just a better experience on Kagi.

sillyfluke 3y ago

Seriously, on its face it's worse than google privacy wise because of the payment thing. Accept cash payment as some email providers and VPNs or stop telling people to trust you. And claiming Bitcoin changes anything privacy wise for the layman just blares red flags all over the place.