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Also, purchased data can be low quality, of unknown correctness and completeness, and not include everything you need in its schema. For one startup, which add
by neilv 3y ago
Also, purchased data can be low quality, of unknown correctness and completeness, and not include everything you need in its schema.
For one startup, which addressed problems for brands like counterfeiting and gray market diversion, we needed to monitor online marketplaces over time.
Off-the-shelf scraping products we tried, which supposedly targeted one of the biggest marketplaces, were very poor, even when operated in their manually-invoked modes (nevermind scheduled).
I ended up building a scraper that was correct and reliable, and captured all the data that we needed. And cost around $5/month to run.
(This superior capability was not only useful in general for our services, but I understand it helped with cold enterprise sales approaches, from a tiny startup, e.g., maybe something like: "Here's an analysis of impact of X to your brand, based on data we monitor with some of our technology. Would love to discuss with you.")
Controlling and understanding the software also gave us the flexibility to add capability quickly, as soon we had a need. For example, since the problems we were addressing were global, as soon as we needed to be able to see what different geopolitical instances of that marketplace were showing to shoppers from those same geopolitical areas, I was able to implement scraping of that.
This was remarkably stable/resilient over time, as well. The biggest risk I perceived was something I warned the team about: "The first rule of Scrape Club is: Don't Talk About Scrape Club." I didn't want to get on the radar of the marketplace's lawyers, given that they were profiting from counterfeits and gray market, and possibly have public information turn into something that burns up the remainder of our meager Covid-time runway on lawyer billable hours. (Having data get cut off due to lawyers also seems a risk if using a vendor for the data.)
Of course, there are often good reasons to buy data dumps/feeds. Just giving an example of when it wasn't the best choice.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- marginalia_nu 3y agoQuality issues are to be expected, given the most effective countermeasure when you detect scraping is not to block the bot or dispatch the lawyers, but to poison the well with subtly incorrect responses. If a stream of data is central to your business, then you might catch on eventually, but if you're just selling it along, it will most likely take forever to detect this type of quality problem.
- wddkcs 3y agoWhat's the point of poisoning the well, unless you plan on monitizing a clean flow?
- marginalia_nu 3y agoIf you block a scraper, they will find a way around it, and it's very obvious in the scraper logs that something is wrong. It's like barely even an inconvenience. They're back in 15 minutes with a new set of IPs and a new configuration for their browsers, like you can even go as far as to automate this stuff. Poisoning the data is much more insidious, since it doesn't let the scrapers know that you know. It means you can work to undermine whatever purpose they have. If they try to sell your data, you'll ruin their reputation with their customers. If they use your data for decision making, you trick them into making bad calls.
- wddkcs 3y agoI get the results of it, I just don't see the value in even poisoning the data, unless you plan on monitizing it in the near term. Maybe the scrapping is imposing real operational costs on you, but then poisoning the data doesn't help.
- marginalia_nu 3y agoA fairly common use case for scraping is to keep track of your competition. This creates a fog of war if you will.
- PigiVinci83 3y agoThe biggest risk I perceived was something I warned the team about: "The first rule of Scrape Club is: Don't Talk About Scrape Club." It seems someone broke this rule: https://www.google.com/search?q=the+web+scraping+club https://www.google.com/search?q=the+web+scraping+club