6 ms·

> You get a reputation for being unethical, it ruins your career. About those worthless MBS that got sold: Should we expect the death of Goldman anytime soon?

asmithmd1 15y ago
He meant unethical in dealings with other Wall St. companies. Customers are sheep to be shorn.
michaelochurch 15y ago
I should have clarified: personal reputation vs. organization reputation. Wall Street's a big industry and has a lot of unethical people in it, but corporations are good at distancing themselves from bad actors (even if they supported them while they were being scummy). People have a hard time recovering from a bad reputation; companies reinvent themselves more easily.
- jpdoctor 15y ago
  > People have a hard time recovering from a bad reputation Lloyd Blankfein hired a criminal defense lawyer in order to prepare for charges. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/14/goldman-financial-crisis-prosecution_n_848994.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/14/goldman-financial-c...) After how many years should we expect his ouster by the board?
  - michaelochurch 15y ago
    Ok, that's upper class, which is a different culture from Wall Street. If you're a VP or a middling MD and you get a reputation for being scummy, it hurts you. Not to say there aren't lots of scummy people at middle ranks of banks; it's just that getting caught doesn't help you. Corporate executives, on the other hand, are a different breed and live in a world that's much more tolerant of scumbaggery (like the world of politicians and well-connected people in general). The upper class is the same whether you're in finance or non-profits or regular corporate America. They like scumminess. Or, at least, they're more invested in the mob-like tendency to always protect their own than any other ethical principle.
    - jpdoctor 15y ago
      > If you're a VP or a middling MD and you get a reputation for being scummy, it hurts you. So Goldman managing director, Scott L. Lebovitz sat on the BoD of a company which hosted of the biggest forum for sex trafficking of under-age girls. Village Voice Media had 70% of prostitution ads. Is this what hurt him that he had to step down after many years? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/opinion/sunday/kristof-financers-and-sex-trafficking.html?_r=1&src=tp http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/opinion/sunday/kristof-fin... BTW, we can play this game all day. If you think that there is an iota less scumminess on Wall Street, then you haven't worked there or looked too carefully.
      - michaelochurch 15y ago
        I think there's less scumminess among average people on Wall Street than among average non-engineers in VCistan, which is only a small percentage of startups, much less technology. I think there's way more scumminess on Wall Street than in technology as a whole, or than in the private-sector in general, but I think the current crop of darling-at-the-ball social-games/network-coupon VC-funded startups have some really scummy executives. This is something I've observed through experience, and it surprised me a lot, to tell the truth.

asmithmd1 15y ago

He meant unethical in dealings with other Wall St. companies. Customers are sheep to be shorn.

michaelochurch 15y ago

I should have clarified: personal reputation vs. organization reputation. Wall Street's a big industry and has a lot of unethical people in it, but corporations are good at distancing themselves from bad actors (even if they supported them while they were being scummy). People have a hard time recovering from a bad reputation; companies reinvent themselves more easily.

jpdoctor 15y ago
> People have a hard time recovering from a bad reputation Lloyd Blankfein hired a criminal defense lawyer in order to prepare for charges. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/14/goldman-financial-crisis-prosecution_n_848994.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/14/goldman-financial-c...) After how many years should we expect his ouster by the board?
- michaelochurch 15y ago
  Ok, that's upper class, which is a different culture from Wall Street. If you're a VP or a middling MD and you get a reputation for being scummy, it hurts you. Not to say there aren't lots of scummy people at middle ranks of banks; it's just that getting caught doesn't help you. Corporate executives, on the other hand, are a different breed and live in a world that's much more tolerant of scumbaggery (like the world of politicians and well-connected people in general). The upper class is the same whether you're in finance or non-profits or regular corporate America. They like scumminess. Or, at least, they're more invested in the mob-like tendency to always protect their own than any other ethical principle.
  - jpdoctor 15y ago
    > If you're a VP or a middling MD and you get a reputation for being scummy, it hurts you. So Goldman managing director, Scott L. Lebovitz sat on the BoD of a company which hosted of the biggest forum for sex trafficking of under-age girls. Village Voice Media had 70% of prostitution ads. Is this what hurt him that he had to step down after many years? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/opinion/sunday/kristof-financers-and-sex-trafficking.html?_r=1&src=tp http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/opinion/sunday/kristof-fin... BTW, we can play this game all day. If you think that there is an iota less scumminess on Wall Street, then you haven't worked there or looked too carefully.
    - michaelochurch 15y ago
      I think there's less scumminess among average people on Wall Street than among average non-engineers in VCistan, which is only a small percentage of startups, much less technology. I think there's way more scumminess on Wall Street than in technology as a whole, or than in the private-sector in general, but I think the current crop of darling-at-the-ball social-games/network-coupon VC-funded startups have some really scummy executives. This is something I've observed through experience, and it surprised me a lot, to tell the truth.