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Or being in a financial situation where you can afford a house and are insulated from inflation leads to less stress. The “link” is more likely to financial st

Or being in a financial situation where you can afford a house and are insulated from inflation leads to less stress. The “link” is more likely to financial stress than the kind of housing you’re in.

lazide 3y ago
Also, being in a situation where you can minimize the outside influences of others to some extent and invest in something suitable for your long term (and reap correspondingly lower long term costs) leads to less stress. But, counterbalanced by the possibility of ‘having a mortgage and being stuck in a place that may not longer be optimal for your given economic changes around you’ that can lead to more stress.
- vlovich123 3y ago
  > But, counterbalanced by the possibility of ‘having a mortgage and being stuck in a place that may not longer be optimal for your given economic changes around you’ that can lead to more stress. Sure. But we’re talking population level differences. There’s plenty of wealthy people that also choose to rent. However, at a population level, those effects are going to be a lot smaller. If you have a 2008 situation where the entire class experiences a shock then maybe.
  - lazide 3y ago
    Situations like ‘08 happen cyclically and population wide? So over time you’ll have various percentages of owners who went through it and were so impacted right? And those population level differences will definitely impact the data in the study, right?
    - vlovich123 3y ago
      Firstly, this is the UK. The study compared with people who own & socially rented housing: > Costs are higher, conditions are worse and tenure is more precarious than in owner-occupied housing or socially rented housing. This is clearly covering the situation of a very specific income level. > Policies to reduce the stress and uncertainty associated with private renting, such as ending no-fault evictions, limiting rent increases and improving conditions, may go some way to reducing the negative impacts. Again, it's pretty clear it's about specific things with respect to how things work in the UK. It's hard to translate this to America. For example, I suspect people who can rent fare better than people who are doing Section 8 housing even though Section 8 housing would be considered the "equivalent" of social housing (& projects which are the direct equivalents have been largely abandoned as failures in the US). As for your claim that '08 happens cyclically, it's now 15 years since & hasn't happened since. The longitudinal study starts in 1991. I don't know how many housing shocks happened in the UK, but if it's anything like the US IIRC there weren't any macro economic conditions that affected home owners and not renters unlike '08. I believe like most countries the UK only offers ARM rather than 30 years which means interest rate shocks are guaranteed to hit homeowners just with a bit of added lag. There's just not enough of a cycle and the cycles don't last long enough to tease out health impacts.
      - lazide 3y ago
        That is a remarkably rosy view of history - [https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/24/history-british-housing-decade https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/24/history-bri...] There definitely is a cycle, and the cycles definitely last long enough that with some work you could see the impacts. They do tend to hit some areas of society harder than others, but on average hit everyone. And that is in the UK. Similar analysis will show similar cycles in the US, albeit not exactly in lockstep. The Fed has been pumping since ‘09, and only stopped very recently. which is why we’ve had such a long ‘rosy’ run of it recently. Which means we’ll likely have a particularly painful impact. But hey, maybe it’s all different this time? [https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-house-price-index-for-july-2023/uk-house-price-index-summary-july-2023#price-changes https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-house-price-inde...] [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL] [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA]
esalman 3y ago
Absolutely. Just signed 14 months lease on a townhouse, and the process was very time consuming. We cannot afford to buy a similar one, would cost us more than double every month.

lazide 3y ago

Also, being in a situation where you can minimize the outside influences of others to some extent and invest in something suitable for your long term (and reap correspondingly lower long term costs) leads to less stress. But, counterbalanced by the possibility of ‘having a mortgage and being stuck in a place that may not longer be optimal for your given economic changes around you’ that can lead to more stress.

vlovich123 3y ago
> But, counterbalanced by the possibility of ‘having a mortgage and being stuck in a place that may not longer be optimal for your given economic changes around you’ that can lead to more stress. Sure. But we’re talking population level differences. There’s plenty of wealthy people that also choose to rent. However, at a population level, those effects are going to be a lot smaller. If you have a 2008 situation where the entire class experiences a shock then maybe.
- lazide 3y ago
  Situations like ‘08 happen cyclically and population wide? So over time you’ll have various percentages of owners who went through it and were so impacted right? And those population level differences will definitely impact the data in the study, right?
  - vlovich123 3y ago
    Firstly, this is the UK. The study compared with people who own & socially rented housing: > Costs are higher, conditions are worse and tenure is more precarious than in owner-occupied housing or socially rented housing. This is clearly covering the situation of a very specific income level. > Policies to reduce the stress and uncertainty associated with private renting, such as ending no-fault evictions, limiting rent increases and improving conditions, may go some way to reducing the negative impacts. Again, it's pretty clear it's about specific things with respect to how things work in the UK. It's hard to translate this to America. For example, I suspect people who can rent fare better than people who are doing Section 8 housing even though Section 8 housing would be considered the "equivalent" of social housing (& projects which are the direct equivalents have been largely abandoned as failures in the US). As for your claim that '08 happens cyclically, it's now 15 years since & hasn't happened since. The longitudinal study starts in 1991. I don't know how many housing shocks happened in the UK, but if it's anything like the US IIRC there weren't any macro economic conditions that affected home owners and not renters unlike '08. I believe like most countries the UK only offers ARM rather than 30 years which means interest rate shocks are guaranteed to hit homeowners just with a bit of added lag. There's just not enough of a cycle and the cycles don't last long enough to tease out health impacts.
    - lazide 3y ago
      That is a remarkably rosy view of history - [https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/24/history-british-housing-decade https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/24/history-bri...] There definitely is a cycle, and the cycles definitely last long enough that with some work you could see the impacts. They do tend to hit some areas of society harder than others, but on average hit everyone. And that is in the UK. Similar analysis will show similar cycles in the US, albeit not exactly in lockstep. The Fed has been pumping since ‘09, and only stopped very recently. which is why we’ve had such a long ‘rosy’ run of it recently. Which means we’ll likely have a particularly painful impact. But hey, maybe it’s all different this time? [https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-house-price-index-for-july-2023/uk-house-price-index-summary-july-2023#price-changes https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-house-price-inde...] [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL] [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPINSA]

esalman 3y ago

Absolutely. Just signed 14 months lease on a townhouse, and the process was very time consuming. We cannot afford to buy a similar one, would cost us more than double every month.