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Haha, yeah, I read the book too, no bland autogenerated pap with zero citations necessary. It clouded my worldview and made me complacent and content with my pr

Haha, yeah, I read the book too, no bland autogenerated pap with zero citations necessary. It clouded my worldview and made me complacent and content with my privilege in the early 2010s. The other usual citation here is Hans Rosling. Think any of the 50 million slaves have had the chance to read the erudite works of Steven Pinker? You haven't addressed any of my points, haven't pointed to a single instance of inaccuracy in anything I cited, and haven't provided a shred of (parochial-sounding) "historical context." Here's a book recommendation for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit

rednerrus 3y ago
Here is what's being counted as slavery from your source: Forms of modern slavery include slavery by "ownership" ("chattel" slavery), government conscription (forced military service or government labor), forced prison labor, forced migrant labor, debt bondage (slavery until debts are paid), sexual slavery, forced marriage/child marriage, child labor, and forced begging. With the definition of modern slavery in mind, we can now move on to examining the statistics. Your 13,000,000 slave number is only chattel slavery. You're comparing apples and oranges to better make your point.
- maxwell 3y ago
  Chattel slavery was legal between the 15th and 19th century, so slaves were uniquely accounted for accurately during that time. Now that slavery is officially illegal (unless the government has a good enough excuse), instead of legal, accounted for chattel slaves you get the de facto / black market / "technically-not-slavery" categories you describe and the job of estimating counts becomes more difficult. Sure, "modern" slavery is more akin to historical/ancient slavery (i.e. ostensibly based on punishment, debt, or civil status), and yes 19th century Southern American slavery was particularly brutal, with cotton becoming the world's top cash crop on the economics of the cotton gin + slave labor. But my point wasn't how many slaves there were between the 15th and 19th century, use any number you like, we all have some sense of how bad things were. My point was that there are tens of millions people living in slave-like conditions right now, while your point seems to be something like, "but it's modern slavery!"
herdrick 3y ago
Interesting. Sounds like the HN rules need a new clause, "No accusing other commenters of writing comments using LLMs".
- maxwell 3y ago
  Accuse? The commenter said they "asked ChatGPT to give us the Clifs [sic] Notes."

rednerrus 3y ago

Here is what's being counted as slavery from your source: Forms of modern slavery include slavery by "ownership" ("chattel" slavery), government conscription (forced military service or government labor), forced prison labor, forced migrant labor, debt bondage (slavery until debts are paid), sexual slavery, forced marriage/child marriage, child labor, and forced begging. With the definition of modern slavery in mind, we can now move on to examining the statistics. Your 13,000,000 slave number is only chattel slavery. You're comparing apples and oranges to better make your point.

maxwell 3y ago
Chattel slavery was legal between the 15th and 19th century, so slaves were uniquely accounted for accurately during that time. Now that slavery is officially illegal (unless the government has a good enough excuse), instead of legal, accounted for chattel slaves you get the de facto / black market / "technically-not-slavery" categories you describe and the job of estimating counts becomes more difficult. Sure, "modern" slavery is more akin to historical/ancient slavery (i.e. ostensibly based on punishment, debt, or civil status), and yes 19th century Southern American slavery was particularly brutal, with cotton becoming the world's top cash crop on the economics of the cotton gin + slave labor. But my point wasn't how many slaves there were between the 15th and 19th century, use any number you like, we all have some sense of how bad things were. My point was that there are tens of millions people living in slave-like conditions right now, while your point seems to be something like, "but it's modern slavery!"

herdrick 3y ago

Interesting. Sounds like the HN rules need a new clause, "No accusing other commenters of writing comments using LLMs".

maxwell 3y ago
Accuse? The commenter said they "asked ChatGPT to give us the Clifs [sic] Notes."