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This article hit me pretty hard. But I really wish we could find a better term than 'mental health crisis'. I think it's a polite form of victim blaming. At wh

This article hit me pretty hard. But I really wish we could find a better term than 'mental health crisis'. I think it's a polite form of victim blaming. At what point are we just gonna admit that we've built a crap world and we oughta have an honest conversation about fixing it?

rednerrus 3y ago
People spend too much time staring into their phones, consuming simple carbohydrates, and being sedentary. The world is better than it's ever been. We just don't take good care of ourselves.
- maxwell 3y ago
  What are you talking about? Peace in Europe is shattered. The former President of the United States has been indicted multiple times on dozens of felony charges. R&D on the killer bipedal robots + assassination drones + AI from your favorite sci-fi movies is nearing completion. Full Nineteen Eighty-Four-style surveillance totalitarianism has been rolled out in occupied China and is at the pilot stage in most western countries. According to the SlaveVoyages project, almost 13 million people were captured and sold as slaves between the 15th and 19th centuries: https://www.slavevoyages.org/assessment/estimates https://www.slavevoyages.org/assessment/estimates Today, 50 million people live in slavery, according to the Walk Free Foundation: https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/findings/global-findings https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/findings/globa... Are they spending "too much time staring into their phones, consuming simple carbohydrates, and being sedentary"? The "world is better than it's ever been" for those 50 million slaves? They're just not taking "good care" of themselves? Can you find any chocolate bars that aren't made from cocoa beans harvested by child slaves in west Africa? (Only ones I've found: https://manoachocolate.com https://manoachocolate.com) Are you saying U.S. police officers extrajudicially executing more Americans in 2019 than mass shooters murdered is "better than it's ever been"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enfor... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... The Bank of England reporting that real wage growth in the 2010s was back to the slowest since the 19th century, and Britons just need to "take good care of" themselves? https://web.archive.org/web/20161206225850/http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/speeches/2016/speech946.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20161206225850/http://www.bankof... What's better than it's ever been? TV dramas?
  - rednerrus 3y ago
    I could address each of these points and show how you've taken a narrow, specific stance to focus on the negative things in the world. I could point to hundreds of instances that show your view doesn't accurately represent the current state of the world or accurately place it in the context of history. It doesn't accurately account for the scale of historic cruelty, violence, famine, war, oppression, etc. Steven Pinker wrote a whole book dedicated to the topic and I've asked ChatGPT to give us the Clifs Notes: Historical Rates of Homicide: Using historical records, Pinker demonstrates that the rates of homicide in prehistoric tribes and ancient civilizations were much higher than in modern societies. For example, he cites studies of prehistoric grave sites where a significant percentage of skeletons show signs of violent death. Decline of Violent Punishments: In medieval Europe, punishments like drawing and quartering, burning at the stake, and public disembowelment were commonplace. These have been abolished in modern times in favor of more humane treatments. Wars and Battle Deaths: Despite the two World Wars, the rate of deaths in interstate wars has declined since the mid-20th century. Pinker highlights the long stretches of peace between major powers and the decline in the number of genocides post-World War II. Slavery and Torture: Practices such as slavery, once accepted and widespread, have been abolished in most of the world. Similarly, the use of torture has seen a significant decline, especially in Western societies. Treatment of Minority Groups: Pinker discusses improvements in the rights and treatment of women, racial minorities, children, and LGBTQ+ individuals over the past centuries. Acts like domestic violence and hate crimes, which might once have been ignored or condoned, are now prosecuted. Animal Rights: There’s been a growing concern for the well-being of animals, leading to changes in hunting practices, animal farming, and entertainment. Child-rearing Practices: Physical punishment of children, once seen as standard, has declined in many parts of the world. Many societies now view it as unnecessary or even harmful. Data from Non-state Societies: Pinker contrasts the rates of violent death in non-state societies (like hunter-gatherer tribes) with state societies, noting that non-state societies often have higher rates of violent death. Comparative Data: Pinker compares different periods and cultures, illustrating that Enlightenment-era Europe was less violent than medieval Europe, and that the 20th century, despite its wars, was less violent in terms of individual risk of death than previous centuries.
    - 3y ago
maxwell 3y ago
Once the Silent Generation and Boomers no longer hold most of the power.
- Etheryte 3y ago
  This is a nice idea, except it's also completely false. Every generation before this one has thought the same and for most of history they haven't exactly been right.
  - maxwell 3y ago
    Wrong. No previous generations have held onto power as long. We had the first Boomer President in 1993, now here we are thirty years later with the first Silent Generation President. Leadership of the Missionary Generation (born 1860-82) did extend into the 1930s and '40s, but they, you know, enacted the New Deal, created Social Security, and led the global war against fascism. Boomers often talk about the sacrifices of their parents' generation. No one has ever said that the Boomers ever sacrificed anything.
    - Etheryte 3y ago
      This is a very US-centric take that falls apart the moment you look at the rest of the world.
      - maxwell 3y ago
        Agreed, e.g. Britain has already had four Gen X PMs.
        Der_Einzige 3y ago
        And which country faired better in the ensuing years?
brink 3y ago
> At what point are we just gonna admit that we've built a crap world and we oughta have an honest conversation about fixing it? When we start admitting the problem is fundamental to human nature, meaning we start pointing the finger at ourselves instead of only at other people. Until then, this cycle will only continue.
- nickvec 3y ago
  Not sure if you're implying that having a "crap world" is inherent to human nature, but I disagree. We live in a society that forces the majority of people to labor tirelessly for low wages. In our society, money is power, and one can't shoulder the blame for a dysfunctional society that they (for all intents and purposes) don't have a say in. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the mental health crisis is a societal problem, not a personal one. With roots in low wages, high hours, world instability, a loss of community/spirituality, and other factors that simply are not controllable by the average Joe.
- KittenInABox 3y ago
  It is not fundamental to human nature to be in unfathomable amounts of debt.
  - brink 3y ago
    Debt is fueled by greed, which human nature is prone to.
    - anigbrowl 3y ago
      'Human nature' is whatever people want it to be for the purpose of argument. It's a thought-terminating cliche. There isn't one single personality type, although there is some evidence to suggest that there are 4 or 5 basic ones. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1600451 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1600451
    - Sprocklem 3y ago
      Greed is part of human nature, sure, but so is empathy and selflessness and a sense of justice. We certainly didn't need to build a society that rewards people for giving into one of their most selfish and cruel impulses.
derbOac 3y ago
Indeed. Suicide rates in the US reached an all-time high last year: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/cdc-data-finds-suicides-reached-time-high-2022-rcna99327 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/cdc-data-finds-... I didn't really see the article itself as victim blaming, but I agree that the way suicide is framed often does just that, and there's a bit of that covered in the piece. Not a collective effort by professional groups to address the stressors identified, but a focus on the mental state of the vets, as if it's all in their head and a "mental hygenic" issue. This approach seems pretty par for the course now: mental wellness is a focus in professional groups, HR, whatever, but it's seen as something like exercise, where whatever happens is caused by the person's own head, and the stressors are just part of normal life, not something to be fixed or changed. Sometimes I've felt like society gets way off course, and huge systemic gaps that develop, between reality and the schemas in people's minds about what's going on. There are usually segments of society that end up picking up the slack, depending on the worst parts of society's distortions, and in this case it feels like vets are one of those groups.

rednerrus 3y ago

People spend too much time staring into their phones, consuming simple carbohydrates, and being sedentary. The world is better than it's ever been. We just don't take good care of ourselves.

maxwell 3y ago
What are you talking about? Peace in Europe is shattered. The former President of the United States has been indicted multiple times on dozens of felony charges. R&D on the killer bipedal robots + assassination drones + AI from your favorite sci-fi movies is nearing completion. Full Nineteen Eighty-Four-style surveillance totalitarianism has been rolled out in occupied China and is at the pilot stage in most western countries. According to the SlaveVoyages project, almost 13 million people were captured and sold as slaves between the 15th and 19th centuries: https://www.slavevoyages.org/assessment/estimates https://www.slavevoyages.org/assessment/estimates Today, 50 million people live in slavery, according to the Walk Free Foundation: https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/findings/global-findings https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/findings/globa... Are they spending "too much time staring into their phones, consuming simple carbohydrates, and being sedentary"? The "world is better than it's ever been" for those 50 million slaves? They're just not taking "good care" of themselves? Can you find any chocolate bars that aren't made from cocoa beans harvested by child slaves in west Africa? (Only ones I've found: https://manoachocolate.com https://manoachocolate.com) Are you saying U.S. police officers extrajudicially executing more Americans in 2019 than mass shooters murdered is "better than it's ever been"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_killings_by_law_enfor... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... The Bank of England reporting that real wage growth in the 2010s was back to the slowest since the 19th century, and Britons just need to "take good care of" themselves? https://web.archive.org/web/20161206225850/http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/speeches/2016/speech946.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20161206225850/http://www.bankof... What's better than it's ever been? TV dramas?
- rednerrus 3y ago
  I could address each of these points and show how you've taken a narrow, specific stance to focus on the negative things in the world. I could point to hundreds of instances that show your view doesn't accurately represent the current state of the world or accurately place it in the context of history. It doesn't accurately account for the scale of historic cruelty, violence, famine, war, oppression, etc. Steven Pinker wrote a whole book dedicated to the topic and I've asked ChatGPT to give us the Clifs Notes: Historical Rates of Homicide: Using historical records, Pinker demonstrates that the rates of homicide in prehistoric tribes and ancient civilizations were much higher than in modern societies. For example, he cites studies of prehistoric grave sites where a significant percentage of skeletons show signs of violent death. Decline of Violent Punishments: In medieval Europe, punishments like drawing and quartering, burning at the stake, and public disembowelment were commonplace. These have been abolished in modern times in favor of more humane treatments. Wars and Battle Deaths: Despite the two World Wars, the rate of deaths in interstate wars has declined since the mid-20th century. Pinker highlights the long stretches of peace between major powers and the decline in the number of genocides post-World War II. Slavery and Torture: Practices such as slavery, once accepted and widespread, have been abolished in most of the world. Similarly, the use of torture has seen a significant decline, especially in Western societies. Treatment of Minority Groups: Pinker discusses improvements in the rights and treatment of women, racial minorities, children, and LGBTQ+ individuals over the past centuries. Acts like domestic violence and hate crimes, which might once have been ignored or condoned, are now prosecuted. Animal Rights: There’s been a growing concern for the well-being of animals, leading to changes in hunting practices, animal farming, and entertainment. Child-rearing Practices: Physical punishment of children, once seen as standard, has declined in many parts of the world. Many societies now view it as unnecessary or even harmful. Data from Non-state Societies: Pinker contrasts the rates of violent death in non-state societies (like hunter-gatherer tribes) with state societies, noting that non-state societies often have higher rates of violent death. Comparative Data: Pinker compares different periods and cultures, illustrating that Enlightenment-era Europe was less violent than medieval Europe, and that the 20th century, despite its wars, was less violent in terms of individual risk of death than previous centuries.
  - 3y ago

maxwell 3y ago

Once the Silent Generation and Boomers no longer hold most of the power.

Etheryte 3y ago
This is a nice idea, except it's also completely false. Every generation before this one has thought the same and for most of history they haven't exactly been right.
- maxwell 3y ago
  Wrong. No previous generations have held onto power as long. We had the first Boomer President in 1993, now here we are thirty years later with the first Silent Generation President. Leadership of the Missionary Generation (born 1860-82) did extend into the 1930s and '40s, but they, you know, enacted the New Deal, created Social Security, and led the global war against fascism. Boomers often talk about the sacrifices of their parents' generation. No one has ever said that the Boomers ever sacrificed anything.
  - Etheryte 3y ago
    This is a very US-centric take that falls apart the moment you look at the rest of the world.
    - maxwell 3y ago
      Agreed, e.g. Britain has already had four Gen X PMs.
      - Der_Einzige 3y ago
        And which country faired better in the ensuing years?

brink 3y ago

> At what point are we just gonna admit that we've built a crap world and we oughta have an honest conversation about fixing it? When we start admitting the problem is fundamental to human nature, meaning we start pointing the finger at ourselves instead of only at other people. Until then, this cycle will only continue.

nickvec 3y ago
Not sure if you're implying that having a "crap world" is inherent to human nature, but I disagree. We live in a society that forces the majority of people to labor tirelessly for low wages. In our society, money is power, and one can't shoulder the blame for a dysfunctional society that they (for all intents and purposes) don't have a say in. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the mental health crisis is a societal problem, not a personal one. With roots in low wages, high hours, world instability, a loss of community/spirituality, and other factors that simply are not controllable by the average Joe.
KittenInABox 3y ago
It is not fundamental to human nature to be in unfathomable amounts of debt.
- brink 3y ago
  Debt is fueled by greed, which human nature is prone to.
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    'Human nature' is whatever people want it to be for the purpose of argument. It's a thought-terminating cliche. There isn't one single personality type, although there is some evidence to suggest that there are 4 or 5 basic ones. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1600451 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1600451
  - Sprocklem 3y ago
    Greed is part of human nature, sure, but so is empathy and selflessness and a sense of justice. We certainly didn't need to build a society that rewards people for giving into one of their most selfish and cruel impulses.

derbOac 3y ago

Indeed. Suicide rates in the US reached an all-time high last year: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/cdc-data-finds-suicides-reached-time-high-2022-rcna99327 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/cdc-data-finds-... I didn't really see the article itself as victim blaming, but I agree that the way suicide is framed often does just that, and there's a bit of that covered in the piece. Not a collective effort by professional groups to address the stressors identified, but a focus on the mental state of the vets, as if it's all in their head and a "mental hygenic" issue. This approach seems pretty par for the course now: mental wellness is a focus in professional groups, HR, whatever, but it's seen as something like exercise, where whatever happens is caused by the person's own head, and the stressors are just part of normal life, not something to be fixed or changed. Sometimes I've felt like society gets way off course, and huge systemic gaps that develop, between reality and the schemas in people's minds about what's going on. There are usually segments of society that end up picking up the slack, depending on the worst parts of society's distortions, and in this case it feels like vets are one of those groups.