5 ms·

I think most people in the suburban US have no idea what a public, car-free, communal space where people can casually gather without buying something even is.

by acabal 3y ago

I think most people in the suburban US have no idea what a public, car-free, communal space where people can casually gather without buying something even is. At this point, entire generations have grown up in unwalkable suburban life, using cars as the only mode of getting from point A to point B from the day they were born, with a strip mall as the only place to go - and even then only if you have to run an errand or get the occasional meal out. Having been been isolated from a real third space like public plazas since probably the 60s or 70s, it's no surprise that today's suburban generation views them with suspicion, confusion, and disdain. They like their strip malls just fine thank you very much, and anyway, how would they park their car?

PopAlongKid 3y ago
> most people in the suburban US have no idea what a public, car-free, communal space where people can casually gather without buying something even is. They all know what a park/playground is
- acabal 3y ago
  Playgrounds require you to have children with you - for example I don't think it would be socially acceptable for a group of unaccompanied adults to show up to a playground and sip some beers while they chat amongst themselves, like you might do in a public plaza in Europe. Municipal parks, like the kind you can find in Savannah GA, are nice third spaces. But I think there are very few such parks in suburban America that are not also mostly playgrounds. I would not count nature reserves as real third spaces.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    Most parks with playgrounds in America are, by area, 90% park and 10% playground. Or something roughly like that; the playgrounds are designated areas tucked away into some corner of the parks. Except you're probably not allowed to drink beer there anyway, because a law against drinking in the park provides a convenient excuse to keep the park clear of homeless so everybody else can enjoy it.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Its usually not literally just a playground. Its usually a whole park which happens to have a playground or two. For instance, this last weekend I went to a park with some adult friends which had playgrounds, but we were there for the disc golf. There were other adults having some kind of cookout at the grills and picnic tables. There were adults playing soccer in one of the fields. Then yes, there were kids and parents at the playgrounds. The vast majority of parks I see around me aren't just a playground. Those mostly seem pretty rare.
  - RestlessMind 3y ago
    > But I think there are very few such parks in suburban America that are not also mostly playgrounds. Reality disagrees with you. Just search for parks on Google maps for SV and you will see so many where playgrounds are just a small part and the rest of the park is for everyone - https://www.google.com/maps/ https://www.google.com/maps/ My favorite ones: Las Palmas, Cuesta, Washington. And if I want to drive for ~15-20 min: Shoreline, Rancho San Antonio, Baylands.
vel0city 3y ago
> a strip mall as the only place to go I don't get why so many in the comments think suburbs only have strip malls as the places to go. I've lived in many suburbs, they've always had a lot of places to go. Libraries, parks, running trails, recreation centers, sports fields, publicly subsidized water parks or pools, town square areas, public golf courses, public disc golf courses, etc. In my current suburb almost all of these kinds of features are connected by separate bike trails and transit. There's a city park at the end of my suburban street with pavilions, playgrounds, a fishing pond with a dock/platform in it with picnic tables, picnic tables and grills dotting the tree line, a paved running trail, and a few different sports fields. No driving, not a long walk. This is the experience for pretty much my whole suburban city, not some one-off thing.
- tzs 3y ago
  > I've lived in many suburbs, they've always had a lot of places to go. Libraries, parks, running trails, recreation centers, sports fields, publicly subsidized water parks or pools, town square areas, public golf courses, public disc golf courses, etc. Indeed, that suburbs offered better access to many of those things than did cities (especially poor parts of cities) used to be one of the big arguments offered against suburbs. The argument was that suburbs had those things due to racism--suburbs were mostly white and so governments built those things in the suburbs.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    The suburb I'm talking about is less white than the national average, by a significant margin. (50% versus 75%)
  - RestlessMind 3y ago
    The suburbs where we live, white people are a minority. And they have all the great stuff GP mentioned.
- neuromanser 3y ago
  > I've lived in many suburbs, they've always had a lot of places to go. Libraries, parks, running trails, recreation centers, sports fields, publicly subsidized water parks or pools, town square areas, public golf courses, public disc golf courses, etc. Any grocery stores? Cafes? Restaurants? Bars?
slothtrop 3y ago
Don't they have community centers and parks in basically all of suburban US?
RestlessMind 3y ago
> most people in the suburban US have no idea what a public, car-free, communal space where people can casually gather without buying something even is. You haven't really lived in US suburbs then. I live in one and within 0.6-0.8 mile radius, we have 3-4 parks and 2-3 libraries. Within 15-20 min driving distance, we have amazing parks. We meet other people regularly in such places without having to buy anything. And thanks to California weather, those are accessible except when it is raining. So please stop your FUD.
aidenn0 3y ago
> I think most people in the suburban US have no idea what a public, car-free, communal space where people can casually gather without buying something even is. The place where I grew up had a town center with offices above shops, and plenty of open areas for people to gather; it was designed for being a "third space." Then (a few years before COVID), it went under new management who was livid that so many people were spending time there without shopping and they did various things to make it much less desirable to go there if you aren't shopping. About 30% of the stores/restaurants went out of business in a year. Turns out, for the right sized pies, a large slice of a smaller pie is worse than a small slice of a larger pie.

by acabal 3y ago

PopAlongKid 3y ago

> most people in the suburban US have no idea what a public, car-free, communal space where people can casually gather without buying something even is. They all know what a park/playground is

acabal 3y ago
Playgrounds require you to have children with you - for example I don't think it would be socially acceptable for a group of unaccompanied adults to show up to a playground and sip some beers while they chat amongst themselves, like you might do in a public plaza in Europe. Municipal parks, like the kind you can find in Savannah GA, are nice third spaces. But I think there are very few such parks in suburban America that are not also mostly playgrounds. I would not count nature reserves as real third spaces.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  Most parks with playgrounds in America are, by area, 90% park and 10% playground. Or something roughly like that; the playgrounds are designated areas tucked away into some corner of the parks. Except you're probably not allowed to drink beer there anyway, because a law against drinking in the park provides a convenient excuse to keep the park clear of homeless so everybody else can enjoy it.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Its usually not literally just a playground. Its usually a whole park which happens to have a playground or two. For instance, this last weekend I went to a park with some adult friends which had playgrounds, but we were there for the disc golf. There were other adults having some kind of cookout at the grills and picnic tables. There were adults playing soccer in one of the fields. Then yes, there were kids and parents at the playgrounds. The vast majority of parks I see around me aren't just a playground. Those mostly seem pretty rare.
- RestlessMind 3y ago
  > But I think there are very few such parks in suburban America that are not also mostly playgrounds. Reality disagrees with you. Just search for parks on Google maps for SV and you will see so many where playgrounds are just a small part and the rest of the park is for everyone - https://www.google.com/maps/ https://www.google.com/maps/ My favorite ones: Las Palmas, Cuesta, Washington. And if I want to drive for ~15-20 min: Shoreline, Rancho San Antonio, Baylands.

vel0city 3y ago

> a strip mall as the only place to go I don't get why so many in the comments think suburbs only have strip malls as the places to go. I've lived in many suburbs, they've always had a lot of places to go. Libraries, parks, running trails, recreation centers, sports fields, publicly subsidized water parks or pools, town square areas, public golf courses, public disc golf courses, etc. In my current suburb almost all of these kinds of features are connected by separate bike trails and transit. There's a city park at the end of my suburban street with pavilions, playgrounds, a fishing pond with a dock/platform in it with picnic tables, picnic tables and grills dotting the tree line, a paved running trail, and a few different sports fields. No driving, not a long walk. This is the experience for pretty much my whole suburban city, not some one-off thing.

tzs 3y ago
> I've lived in many suburbs, they've always had a lot of places to go. Libraries, parks, running trails, recreation centers, sports fields, publicly subsidized water parks or pools, town square areas, public golf courses, public disc golf courses, etc. Indeed, that suburbs offered better access to many of those things than did cities (especially poor parts of cities) used to be one of the big arguments offered against suburbs. The argument was that suburbs had those things due to racism--suburbs were mostly white and so governments built those things in the suburbs.
- vel0city 3y ago
  The suburb I'm talking about is less white than the national average, by a significant margin. (50% versus 75%)
- RestlessMind 3y ago
  The suburbs where we live, white people are a minority. And they have all the great stuff GP mentioned.
neuromanser 3y ago
> I've lived in many suburbs, they've always had a lot of places to go. Libraries, parks, running trails, recreation centers, sports fields, publicly subsidized water parks or pools, town square areas, public golf courses, public disc golf courses, etc. Any grocery stores? Cafes? Restaurants? Bars?

slothtrop 3y ago

Don't they have community centers and parks in basically all of suburban US?

RestlessMind 3y ago

> most people in the suburban US have no idea what a public, car-free, communal space where people can casually gather without buying something even is. You haven't really lived in US suburbs then. I live in one and within 0.6-0.8 mile radius, we have 3-4 parks and 2-3 libraries. Within 15-20 min driving distance, we have amazing parks. We meet other people regularly in such places without having to buy anything. And thanks to California weather, those are accessible except when it is raining. So please stop your FUD.

aidenn0 3y ago

> I think most people in the suburban US have no idea what a public, car-free, communal space where people can casually gather without buying something even is. The place where I grew up had a town center with offices above shops, and plenty of open areas for people to gather; it was designed for being a "third space." Then (a few years before COVID), it went under new management who was livid that so many people were spending time there without shopping and they did various things to make it much less desirable to go there if you aren't shopping. About 30% of the stores/restaurants went out of business in a year. Turns out, for the right sized pies, a large slice of a smaller pie is worse than a small slice of a larger pie.