4 ms·

Even if you go by number of trips and then even if you limit yourself to just trips 3.7 to 7.5 km cars are still are 50% more common than bikes. https://www.cb

Even if you go by number of trips and then even if you limit yourself to just trips 3.7 to 7.5 km cars are still are 50% more common than bikes. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG

philistine 3y ago
That is absolutely great. A third of all short trips in the Netherlands are biked. To this North American, this is mental. What a great stat, that I trust the country to make even more impressive.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Take a trip to Utrecht and you'll feel like you've died and gone to heaven. Or Houten (right next to Utrecht) which is one of the best designed suburbs in the world 25% walking 48% biking 5% public transport 18% car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share or https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gemeente-utrecht-maart-2020.pdf https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gem... https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle-heaven-moved-family-netherlands-houten-utrecht https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle... And the thing is - Utrecht is amazing. I don't think people there are bemoaning their sad existence lacking in freedom or mobility. But part of the success of Utrecht and Houten is taking space away from cars and giving it to bikes (and walking and public transport). I'm struggling to find a source but recently Utrecht determined that a street had too much traffic and was clogged with cars so the solution was that obviously it needed more throughput - so it should be made in to a bike route. I just wish I hadn't needed to move 8,000 km to have this level of freedom.
- Tade0 3y ago
  There's another, not great stat: https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in-2022-particularly-among-cyclists-over-75 https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in...
  - InitialLastName 3y ago
    That 757 traffic deaths in 2022, while tragic, makes it 4 deaths per 100K people in the Netherlands. For comparison, the NHTSA is estimating the US had 42,795 traffic deaths in 2022, which is 13 deaths per 100k people per year. Even a horrifically bad year in the Netherlands is dwarfed by the rate cars kill people in the US. [0] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-estimates-2022 https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-est...
    - Tade0 3y ago
      That's true, but it's also more than in relatively car-oriented Germany, not to mention definitely car-oriented (in European terms) Ireland. My point being: it's not the mode of personal transport, but approach to safety that ultimately makes the numbers. The Dutch are unwilling to mandate bike helmets, saying that it would reduce cycling. This begs the question: what's more important really?
      - CalRobert 3y ago
        As best I can tell, it isn't clear what the impact on cycling is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmets_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmets_in_Australia I'm ambivalent. I personally think a helmet saved my life when I was riding in Sacramento but I ride much more slowly here in NL (about 8-11 mph). I wouldn't mind if helmets were normalized but (as noted at wikipedia) that makes using OV-fiets, etc. more of a hassle. Certainly a helmet is a good idea when riding a faster e-bike.
        Tade0 3y ago
        I never liked helmets and refused to wear them even as a young adult, but now that I have a small child I got myself the dorkiest, safest high-vis bike helmet I could find. The stories I hear how helmets save lives typically don't involve other vehicles - my personal is actually from skiing, as I borrowed a helmet from a friend who had to end his vacation early and I think that saved me from a severe concussion, because a few hours later I fell face-first on compacted snow and couldn't get myself together for a few minutes afterwards. > that makes using OV-fiets, etc. more of a hassle. Perhaps, but are we about road safety or are we about popularizing cycling, traffic deaths be damned? My manager uses a rental bike to commute and he always has his helmet on when phoning in during a break in his commute because he has three kids and no intention of orphaning them. I see it as a question of priorities. I'm against car-oriented infrastructure because I believe some people(20% at least) really shouldn't drive and I care about safety. Bicycles don't seem to deliver on that front either - at least until we figure out what's causing this increase and why the heck aren't all these seniors using public transport?
InitialLastName 3y ago
I'll bet that skews even further for trips under 3.7 km (which is still usually a car trip for many, if not most, in the US).

philistine 3y ago

That is absolutely great. A third of all short trips in the Netherlands are biked. To this North American, this is mental. What a great stat, that I trust the country to make even more impressive.

CalRobert 3y ago
Take a trip to Utrecht and you'll feel like you've died and gone to heaven. Or Houten (right next to Utrecht) which is one of the best designed suburbs in the world 25% walking 48% biking 5% public transport 18% car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share or https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gemeente-utrecht-maart-2020.pdf https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gem... https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle-heaven-moved-family-netherlands-houten-utrecht https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle... And the thing is - Utrecht is amazing. I don't think people there are bemoaning their sad existence lacking in freedom or mobility. But part of the success of Utrecht and Houten is taking space away from cars and giving it to bikes (and walking and public transport). I'm struggling to find a source but recently Utrecht determined that a street had too much traffic and was clogged with cars so the solution was that obviously it needed more throughput - so it should be made in to a bike route. I just wish I hadn't needed to move 8,000 km to have this level of freedom.
Tade0 3y ago
There's another, not great stat: https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in-2022-particularly-among-cyclists-over-75 https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in...
- InitialLastName 3y ago
  That 757 traffic deaths in 2022, while tragic, makes it 4 deaths per 100K people in the Netherlands. For comparison, the NHTSA is estimating the US had 42,795 traffic deaths in 2022, which is 13 deaths per 100k people per year. Even a horrifically bad year in the Netherlands is dwarfed by the rate cars kill people in the US. [0] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-estimates-2022 https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-est...
  - Tade0 3y ago
    That's true, but it's also more than in relatively car-oriented Germany, not to mention definitely car-oriented (in European terms) Ireland. My point being: it's not the mode of personal transport, but approach to safety that ultimately makes the numbers. The Dutch are unwilling to mandate bike helmets, saying that it would reduce cycling. This begs the question: what's more important really?
    - CalRobert 3y ago
      As best I can tell, it isn't clear what the impact on cycling is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmets_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmets_in_Australia I'm ambivalent. I personally think a helmet saved my life when I was riding in Sacramento but I ride much more slowly here in NL (about 8-11 mph). I wouldn't mind if helmets were normalized but (as noted at wikipedia) that makes using OV-fiets, etc. more of a hassle. Certainly a helmet is a good idea when riding a faster e-bike.
      - Tade0 3y ago
        I never liked helmets and refused to wear them even as a young adult, but now that I have a small child I got myself the dorkiest, safest high-vis bike helmet I could find. The stories I hear how helmets save lives typically don't involve other vehicles - my personal is actually from skiing, as I borrowed a helmet from a friend who had to end his vacation early and I think that saved me from a severe concussion, because a few hours later I fell face-first on compacted snow and couldn't get myself together for a few minutes afterwards. > that makes using OV-fiets, etc. more of a hassle. Perhaps, but are we about road safety or are we about popularizing cycling, traffic deaths be damned? My manager uses a rental bike to commute and he always has his helmet on when phoning in during a break in his commute because he has three kids and no intention of orphaning them. I see it as a question of priorities. I'm against car-oriented infrastructure because I believe some people(20% at least) really shouldn't drive and I care about safety. Bicycles don't seem to deliver on that front either - at least until we figure out what's causing this increase and why the heck aren't all these seniors using public transport?

InitialLastName 3y ago

I'll bet that skews even further for trips under 3.7 km (which is still usually a car trip for many, if not most, in the US).