3 ms·

I took a philosophy course on utopian literature. My biggest takeaway is that every utopia has some marginalized group for which the society is less than a utop

I took a philosophy course on utopian literature. My biggest takeaway is that every utopia has some marginalized group for which the society is less than a utopia (more like a dystopia). In Thomas More’s Utopia, this was a literal caste of gold-chained slaves. In the latter half of the course we studied dystopias and it became pretty clear these are two sides of the same coin. The issue with utopias is that they don’t admit a plurality of lifestyles: they force everyone to conform. That, in itself, is dystopian to a lot of people. Real life is messy and people are different. A “proper” utopia for all is always going to be messy and imperfect; a work in progress.

lr4444lr 3y ago
Did you by any chance read Aldous Huxley's "The Island"? The moral is that a utopia where tolerance for plurality is permitted is ideologically incapable of defending itself from external threats.
- m-i-l 3y ago
  > "The moral is that a utopia where tolerance for plurality is permitted is ideologically incapable of defending itself from external threats." See also the Paradox of tolerance[0]: "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
- pstuart 3y ago
  Perhaps I was too young and naive at the time, but I took "The Island" to be an instruction manual on how to do it right (except for the ending, of course). Here and now, boys!
- nonameiguess 3y ago
  It works reasonably well at the level of the entire planet. Every conceivable lifestyle is acceptable somewhere, and nobody has yet managed to conquer all nations to undo that. Where that doesn't help in practice is relocation is often difficult logistically and emotionally, communities exert a grip on people forcing them to stay, some countries forcibly won't let you leave, and, as far as I know, no country lets you freely enter and stay.

lr4444lr 3y ago

Did you by any chance read Aldous Huxley's "The Island"? The moral is that a utopia where tolerance for plurality is permitted is ideologically incapable of defending itself from external threats.

m-i-l 3y ago
> "The moral is that a utopia where tolerance for plurality is permitted is ideologically incapable of defending itself from external threats." See also the Paradox of tolerance[0]: "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
pstuart 3y ago
Perhaps I was too young and naive at the time, but I took "The Island" to be an instruction manual on how to do it right (except for the ending, of course). Here and now, boys!
nonameiguess 3y ago
It works reasonably well at the level of the entire planet. Every conceivable lifestyle is acceptable somewhere, and nobody has yet managed to conquer all nations to undo that. Where that doesn't help in practice is relocation is often difficult logistically and emotionally, communities exert a grip on people forcing them to stay, some countries forcibly won't let you leave, and, as far as I know, no country lets you freely enter and stay.