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Yet the overwhelming majority of people in the Netherlands still uses cars as their primary method of transport: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-expla

by wwtrv 3y ago

Yet the overwhelming majority of people in the Netherlands still uses cars as their primary method of transport: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Travel_distance_per_person_per_day_by_main_travel_mode_for_urban_mobility_on_all_days_(%25)_v3.png https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... of course if you moved there from the USA (which I assume you did?) the car situation there is not that much better than other European countries.

InitialLastName 3y ago
That's not how I interpret that chart. The title says "Travel Distance per person day by main travel mode for urban mobility on all days". That is ambiguous, but suggests that the numbers are actually the share of the travel distance for peoples' main mode, meaning that people who need to travel further in a day tend to have cars, to an overwhelming extent. That is still a coherent situation in a world where most people don't use cars because their daily travel needs only involve short distances (e.g. because they live in an area where all of their needs are met within a short range).
- yourusername 3y ago
  Even if you go by number of trips and then even if you limit yourself to just trips 3.7 to 7.5 km cars are still are 50% more common than bikes. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG
  - philistine 3y ago
    That is absolutely great. A third of all short trips in the Netherlands are biked. To this North American, this is mental. What a great stat, that I trust the country to make even more impressive.
    - CalRobert 3y ago
      Take a trip to Utrecht and you'll feel like you've died and gone to heaven. Or Houten (right next to Utrecht) which is one of the best designed suburbs in the world 25% walking 48% biking 5% public transport 18% car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share or https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gemeente-utrecht-maart-2020.pdf https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gem... https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle-heaven-moved-family-netherlands-houten-utrecht https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle... And the thing is - Utrecht is amazing. I don't think people there are bemoaning their sad existence lacking in freedom or mobility. But part of the success of Utrecht and Houten is taking space away from cars and giving it to bikes (and walking and public transport). I'm struggling to find a source but recently Utrecht determined that a street had too much traffic and was clogged with cars so the solution was that obviously it needed more throughput - so it should be made in to a bike route. I just wish I hadn't needed to move 8,000 km to have this level of freedom.
    - Tade0 3y ago
      There's another, not great stat: https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in-2022-particularly-among-cyclists-over-75 https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in...
      - InitialLastName 3y ago
        That 757 traffic deaths in 2022, while tragic, makes it 4 deaths per 100K people in the Netherlands. For comparison, the NHTSA is estimating the US had 42,795 traffic deaths in 2022, which is 13 deaths per 100k people per year. Even a horrifically bad year in the Netherlands is dwarfed by the rate cars kill people in the US. [0] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-estimates-2022 https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-est...
        Tade0 3y ago
        That's true, but it's also more than in relatively car-oriented Germany, not to mention definitely car-oriented (in European terms) Ireland. My point being: it's not the mode of personal transport, but approach to safety that ultimately makes the numbers. The Dutch are unwilling to mandate bike helmets, saying that it would reduce cycling. This begs the question: what's more important really?
  - InitialLastName 3y ago
    I'll bet that skews even further for trips under 3.7 km (which is still usually a car trip for many, if not most, in the US).
CalRobert 3y ago
OK, but what I love about being here is that I, personally, haven't driven a car here in two months. And there has literally never been a time where we said to ourselves "we could do it but only if we had a car" because the rare occasion where that comes up is what car-share (or van-share, etc.) is for. And that way I don't have to screw around with taking my own car to the shop for (oil changes, tyres, brake jobs, whatever), or having it inspected annually, or shopping around for insurance, etc. My original comment was about removing cars from the city centre, which is great for people who are _not_ in cars because, of course, drivers kill a lot of people and biking to school with your 6 year old is utterly TERRIFYING when someone decides to cut in front of them in a giant truck. Cars make the world worse for everyone around them (including those who are in _other_ cars!) and it's kinda rude to use one in a city.

by wwtrv 3y ago

InitialLastName 3y ago

That's not how I interpret that chart. The title says "Travel Distance per person day by main travel mode for urban mobility on all days". That is ambiguous, but suggests that the numbers are actually the share of the travel distance for peoples' main mode, meaning that people who need to travel further in a day tend to have cars, to an overwhelming extent. That is still a coherent situation in a world where most people don't use cars because their daily travel needs only involve short distances (e.g. because they live in an area where all of their needs are met within a short range).

yourusername 3y ago
Even if you go by number of trips and then even if you limit yourself to just trips 3.7 to 7.5 km cars are still are 50% more common than bikes. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG
- philistine 3y ago
  That is absolutely great. A third of all short trips in the Netherlands are biked. To this North American, this is mental. What a great stat, that I trust the country to make even more impressive.
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    Take a trip to Utrecht and you'll feel like you've died and gone to heaven. Or Houten (right next to Utrecht) which is one of the best designed suburbs in the world 25% walking 48% biking 5% public transport 18% car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share or https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gemeente-utrecht-maart-2020.pdf https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gem... https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle-heaven-moved-family-netherlands-houten-utrecht https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle... And the thing is - Utrecht is amazing. I don't think people there are bemoaning their sad existence lacking in freedom or mobility. But part of the success of Utrecht and Houten is taking space away from cars and giving it to bikes (and walking and public transport). I'm struggling to find a source but recently Utrecht determined that a street had too much traffic and was clogged with cars so the solution was that obviously it needed more throughput - so it should be made in to a bike route. I just wish I hadn't needed to move 8,000 km to have this level of freedom.
  - Tade0 3y ago
    There's another, not great stat: https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in-2022-particularly-among-cyclists-over-75 https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in...
    - InitialLastName 3y ago
      That 757 traffic deaths in 2022, while tragic, makes it 4 deaths per 100K people in the Netherlands. For comparison, the NHTSA is estimating the US had 42,795 traffic deaths in 2022, which is 13 deaths per 100k people per year. Even a horrifically bad year in the Netherlands is dwarfed by the rate cars kill people in the US. [0] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-estimates-2022 https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-est...
      - Tade0 3y ago
        That's true, but it's also more than in relatively car-oriented Germany, not to mention definitely car-oriented (in European terms) Ireland. My point being: it's not the mode of personal transport, but approach to safety that ultimately makes the numbers. The Dutch are unwilling to mandate bike helmets, saying that it would reduce cycling. This begs the question: what's more important really?
- InitialLastName 3y ago
  I'll bet that skews even further for trips under 3.7 km (which is still usually a car trip for many, if not most, in the US).

CalRobert 3y ago

OK, but what I love about being here is that I, personally, haven't driven a car here in two months. And there has literally never been a time where we said to ourselves "we could do it but only if we had a car" because the rare occasion where that comes up is what car-share (or van-share, etc.) is for. And that way I don't have to screw around with taking my own car to the shop for (oil changes, tyres, brake jobs, whatever), or having it inspected annually, or shopping around for insurance, etc. My original comment was about removing cars from the city centre, which is great for people who are _not_ in cars because, of course, drivers kill a lot of people and biking to school with your 6 year old is utterly TERRIFYING when someone decides to cut in front of them in a giant truck. Cars make the world worse for everyone around them (including those who are in _other_ cars!) and it's kinda rude to use one in a city.