6 ms·

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people

• wwtrv 3y ago
  Yet the overwhelming majority of people in the Netherlands still uses cars as their primary method of transport: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Travel_distance_per_person_per_day_by_main_travel_mode_for_urban_mobility_on_all_days_(%25)_v3.png https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... of course if you moved there from the USA (which I assume you did?) the car situation there is not that much better than other European countries.
  • InitialLastName 3y ago
    That's not how I interpret that chart. The title says "Travel Distance per person day by main travel mode for urban mobility on all days". That is ambiguous, but suggests that the numbers are actually the share of the travel distance for peoples' main mode, meaning that people who need to travel further in a day tend to have cars, to an overwhelming extent. That is still a coherent situation in a world where most people don't use cars because their daily travel needs only involve short distances (e.g. because they live in an area where all of their needs are met within a short range).
    • yourusername 3y ago
      Even if you go by number of trips and then even if you limit yourself to just trips 3.7 to 7.5 km cars are still are 50% more common than bikes. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/figures/detail/84708ENG
      • philistine 3y ago
        That is absolutely great. A third of all short trips in the Netherlands are biked. To this North American, this is mental. What a great stat, that I trust the country to make even more impressive.
        • CalRobert 3y ago
          Take a trip to Utrecht and you'll feel like you've died and gone to heaven. Or Houten (right next to Utrecht) which is one of the best designed suburbs in the world 25% walking 48% biking 5% public transport 18% car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share or https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gemeente-utrecht-maart-2020.pdf https://www.cbs.nl/-/media/_pdf/2020/14/modal-split-2018-gem... https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle-heaven-moved-family-netherlands-houten-utrecht https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/16/welcome-cycle... And the thing is - Utrecht is amazing. I don't think people there are bemoaning their sad existence lacking in freedom or mobility. But part of the success of Utrecht and Houten is taking space away from cars and giving it to bikes (and walking and public transport). I'm struggling to find a source but recently Utrecht determined that a street had too much traffic and was clogged with cars so the solution was that obviously it needed more throughput - so it should be made in to a bike route. I just wish I hadn't needed to move 8,000 km to have this level of freedom.
        • Tade0 3y ago
          There's another, not great stat: https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in-2022-particularly-among-cyclists-over-75 https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2023/16/more-traffic-deaths-in...
          • 3y ago
  • CalRobert 3y ago
    OK, but what I love about being here is that I, personally, haven't driven a car here in two months. And there has literally never been a time where we said to ourselves "we could do it but only if we had a car" because the rare occasion where that comes up is what car-share (or van-share, etc.) is for. And that way I don't have to screw around with taking my own car to the shop for (oil changes, tyres, brake jobs, whatever), or having it inspected annually, or shopping around for insurance, etc. My original comment was about removing cars from the city centre, which is great for people who are _not_ in cars because, of course, drivers kill a lot of people and biking to school with your 6 year old is utterly TERRIFYING when someone decides to cut in front of them in a giant truck. Cars make the world worse for everyone around them (including those who are in _other_ cars!) and it's kinda rude to use one in a city.
• eptcyka 3y ago
  Having lived in some places around Europe, my quality of life is always increased by owning a motor vehicle. I do not use it daily, I do not commute with it, but there are trips which are far more practical with a personal motor vehicle than otherwise, like fetching people from an airport, taking a pet to a vet, driving further out for a hike, hauling groceries.
  • supriyo-biswas 3y ago
    Maybe some sort of distance-dependent taxation on cars may be a more viable option, so that people can enjoy private commutes when they absolutely need it, while still pushing people towards public transport.
    • orangepurple 3y ago
      France is like this. Massive amount of toll roads.
    • eptcyka 3y ago
      This is what toll roads do, kind of.
      • thisgoesnowhere 3y ago
        Tolls are very underrated imo but the issue is that of you do tolls without the other infrastructure it's basically just a tax on the poor. You need to offer other methods to get around first then add them.
    • jansan 3y ago
      How about no? Why do you you think you need to patronize people like that?
    • carlosjobim 3y ago
      Are you not aware of taxes on gas? What do you think is the consequence of those taxes?
    • 3y ago
• throwaway67743 3y ago
  I've said you don't need a car all of my life, but after moving out of capital cities it's actually reality that you do need a car, it's just not practical otherwise regardless of how good public transport infrastructure is.
• jokethrowaway 3y ago
  I was happy not to have to drive when living in London but because my comparison was with places with terrible traffic. Now that I moved away to a place with better quality of life, and little to no traffic having a car is great. I can go wherever I want whenever I want. No doubt it's a symbol for freedom for many.
• carlosjobim 3y ago
  Instead of hacker banning everything you don't personally like, isn't it better if people do what you did and move to a place where things are as they wish? Can't you be satisfied that you achieved what works for you and your family and not strive to implement your will onto the entire planet? I used to live in the outback without electricity or running water, and no cars around. It was lovely and I'll probably do it again in my life. And that is an option each one of us has. If you're sick of the city and traffic, you can go live in the sticks, where you won't have to breathe the exhaust. You can go live in a tropical island where there are no cars and only walking roads. That's not a fantasy, that's an option that exists right now. I used to live on one as well. But living away from civilization also requires self-sufficiency – something that everybody had before cars.
  • CalRobert 3y ago
    I don't see how me wanting car-free areas in the centre of dense cities impinges on your ability to live in the sticks.
• giardini 3y ago
  "26% of The Netherlands is below sea level, and 59% of The Netherlands is vulnerable to flooding by the sea in case of high tide and severe storms." from: "How Much Of The Netherlands Is Below Sea Level?" https://netherlandsinsiders.com/how-much-of-the-netherlands-is-below-sea-level/ https://netherlandsinsiders.com/how-much-of-the-netherlands-... If I were less risk-averse I'd live there too. But flooding is "Nature's way of telling" me to move.
  • adammarples 3y ago
    May I hazard a guess that you love somewhere on the San Andreas fault?
    • giardini 3y ago
      No way!8-))
• southernplaces7 3y ago
  [flagged]
  • morelisp 3y ago
    A priori, people who don't drive in cities are not affected by car bans in cities.
    • southernplaces7 3y ago
      First of all, maybe they are. Not everyone who dirves in a city lives in that city, and might have all sorts of practical reasons for having to drive inside it regardless of where they live. Secondly, my response was to the other comment's general disdain for cars and their owners, without specifying that they were referring to city-living car owners.
  • hyperman1 3y ago
    I think you're reading too much into your parent's comment. I personally am pro limiting cars. But, if you have to go further than 10km or move a load of stuff around, go ahead, by all means. My personal experience with cars is daily hours of gridlock hell, with drivers screaming, cutting you off, and being generally nasty. Car sickness from the stop start stop start as bonus. I much rather take the train, do some laptop stuff or read a book, and end up 20 minutes later. I do think we in western europe overoptimized for cars, to the detriment of our children and our health. I do think an SUV generally is a sign of someone being dangerous for everybody else, with not much upside. But hollywood movies show huge roads with, presumably, hours of absolutely nothing. I don't think I've ever seen more than 1 whole km with nothing but roads and fields, but I can't blame anyone for owning a car in that kind of landscape. People have vastly different experiences, and equally different needs. Car fanatics, car haters, and everyone in between should try to acknowledge and respect that.
    • southernplaces7 3y ago
      I mostly agree with what you say, but for your last point about respect, I was essentially making the same argument, that one shouldn't flatly dismiss a certain practice because they themselves don't have a reason for it. I have no problem at all with urban dwellers (or anyone) who choose not to own or drive cars. It's their choice and perfectly valid for their own reasons and needs. The same courtesy should go the other way too though.
• jjav 3y ago
  > A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I love cycling and I love to bike within town and it's great that I can get to nearly all basic needs by bike. I wish there was safe bike parking everywhere though, since the lack of it means I often can't bike there if I can't be sure it won't be stolen. Still, if you want to advocate for more bike friendly places, calling car use an empty and sad life isn't going to win any converts. Cars are immensely useful for nearly everyone, so merely banning them and hoping for the best won't work. Policies need to make alternatives attractive, at which point people will pick what's most convenient by themselves, no need to ban anything.
• wenc 3y ago
  > I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. As someone who loves car-less living in big cities like NYC, I think the position above is an ideological belief rather than a practical one. Every geography and lifestyle has an optimum mode of transportation. In dense urban environments, it would be a heterogeneous mix of public transit for longer distances, scooters or bikes for last mile/yard, and the occasional taxi for groceries or the like. But for those of us who have active busy lives and need to meet friends, take classes, go to events, etc. across town, our time is maximized by the use of a car if the geography admits it. I used to live in Chicago where you absolutely did not need a car, but a car saves you time, lets you explore more parts of the city, and lets you pack more activities in 5 work nights than if you had to rely on public transit and transfers between different lines.
• Ekaros 3y ago
  Why even allow taxis? They should only be allowed for very limited purposes. Like those with mobility restrictions and non-critical healthcare. Anything else complete ban.
• Fatnino 3y ago
  I live in the Bay Area. If I had to confine myself to public transit my quality of life would be severely degraded. There is very little outdoor/nature activity accessible to me by public transit. But if I extend my leash to a 2-3 hour car ride it opens up countless forests, beaches, mountains, ghost towns, lakes, caves, marshes, waterfalls, ...