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> I often think people feel the UK is “done” and we shouldn’t strive to built new things. I'd say the problem is cronyism and corruption with our politicians.

> I often think people feel the UK is “done” and we shouldn’t strive to built new things. I'd say the problem is cronyism and corruption with our politicians. They managed to splash £76million on a useless "NHS" Covid App (not NHS) and any solution to a problem is just seen as a way of funnelling public money into the pockets of the politicians' friends and family (c.f. Rishi Sunak's granting of new oil exploration licenses and his wife's family's investments).

graemep 3y ago
I do not think so. The UK is a lot less corrupt that countries that are enthusiastic about big projects (most of Asia for a start). I think people do want it, but the government is making bad picks. HS2 is a good example. Spending that much while not maintaining the (unreliable ) existing lines is pointless.
- logifail 3y ago
  > HS2 is a good example. Spending that much while not maintaining the (unreliable ) existing lines is pointless. I don't believe there ever was a solid business case for HS2, but Adonis gave it the green light and no-one since was brave enough to pull the plug. "The project itself goes back to 1982, when a group of managers from the nationalised British Rail visited the new TGV railway in France. They returned boggle-eyed at the sight of a train racing at 270kmph (150mph) down its own track, crossing France, from Paris to Lyon, in two hours. Among the visitors was a 35-year-old civil engineer, Jim Steer. He was captivated by speed and, as he told me recently, dismayed by the conviction of his colleagues that “in Britain we would never be allowed to do it”. As with Concorde, Steer understood that the idea of speed could arouse politicians and open purse strings to projects that might otherwise get nowhere. It was speed that had persuaded such prestige-sensitive governments as Japan and France to build new railways. Steer was to be one of three men – the others were a rail-obsessed peer and a chancellor of the exchequer – who kept the dream of high-speed rail alive over the next three decades. Educated at Imperial College London, he trained at the contractors Freeman Fox, but in 1978 he turned freelance as a transport consultant, setting up his own firm: Steer Davies Gleave. A natural buccaneer, he proved adept at winning consultancy contracts anywhere there was a glimmer of interest in fast trains. “Jim was like a terrier,” a contemporary told me. “His name popped up at the foot of reports, inquiries and surveys, wherever the words high-speed rail occurred.”" "It is the most extravagant infrastructure project in British history – but nobody can say why we need it. How did HS2 ever get so far?" https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/07/hs2-the-zombie-train-that-refuses-to-die https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/07/hs2-the-zomb... "The controversial campaign to build a high-speed rail line between London and Birmingham was dealt a blow on Tuesday when an independent report questioned the business case for the £32bn scheme." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jun/21/business-case-hs2-rail-link-questioned https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jun/21/business-case-hs2... "In 2010, when a high-speed rail line from London to the north – HS2 – was proposed by the outgoing Labour government, I wrote an article arguing that the numbers didn’t add up. The environmental benefits had been inflated by a series of blatant accounting tricks and concocted figures. What the government called the “business case” for the scheme was in fact a cost-benefit analysis, in which the supposed economic benefits had been amplified by outright assaults on common sense. The case for HS2 always was a baggage train of bullshit." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/28/hs2-fiasco-clientelism-profit-big-projects https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/28/hs2-fi...
timthorn 3y ago
That £76m was for the track and trace service including the teams of people on the phone. The app was a fraction of that cost.

graemep 3y ago

I do not think so. The UK is a lot less corrupt that countries that are enthusiastic about big projects (most of Asia for a start). I think people do want it, but the government is making bad picks. HS2 is a good example. Spending that much while not maintaining the (unreliable ) existing lines is pointless.

logifail 3y ago
> HS2 is a good example. Spending that much while not maintaining the (unreliable ) existing lines is pointless. I don't believe there ever was a solid business case for HS2, but Adonis gave it the green light and no-one since was brave enough to pull the plug. "The project itself goes back to 1982, when a group of managers from the nationalised British Rail visited the new TGV railway in France. They returned boggle-eyed at the sight of a train racing at 270kmph (150mph) down its own track, crossing France, from Paris to Lyon, in two hours. Among the visitors was a 35-year-old civil engineer, Jim Steer. He was captivated by speed and, as he told me recently, dismayed by the conviction of his colleagues that “in Britain we would never be allowed to do it”. As with Concorde, Steer understood that the idea of speed could arouse politicians and open purse strings to projects that might otherwise get nowhere. It was speed that had persuaded such prestige-sensitive governments as Japan and France to build new railways. Steer was to be one of three men – the others were a rail-obsessed peer and a chancellor of the exchequer – who kept the dream of high-speed rail alive over the next three decades. Educated at Imperial College London, he trained at the contractors Freeman Fox, but in 1978 he turned freelance as a transport consultant, setting up his own firm: Steer Davies Gleave. A natural buccaneer, he proved adept at winning consultancy contracts anywhere there was a glimmer of interest in fast trains. “Jim was like a terrier,” a contemporary told me. “His name popped up at the foot of reports, inquiries and surveys, wherever the words high-speed rail occurred.”" "It is the most extravagant infrastructure project in British history – but nobody can say why we need it. How did HS2 ever get so far?" https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/07/hs2-the-zombie-train-that-refuses-to-die https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/07/hs2-the-zomb... "The controversial campaign to build a high-speed rail line between London and Birmingham was dealt a blow on Tuesday when an independent report questioned the business case for the £32bn scheme." https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jun/21/business-case-hs2-rail-link-questioned https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jun/21/business-case-hs2... "In 2010, when a high-speed rail line from London to the north – HS2 – was proposed by the outgoing Labour government, I wrote an article arguing that the numbers didn’t add up. The environmental benefits had been inflated by a series of blatant accounting tricks and concocted figures. What the government called the “business case” for the scheme was in fact a cost-benefit analysis, in which the supposed economic benefits had been amplified by outright assaults on common sense. The case for HS2 always was a baggage train of bullshit." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/28/hs2-fiasco-clientelism-profit-big-projects https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/28/hs2-fi...

timthorn 3y ago

That £76m was for the track and trace service including the teams of people on the phone. The app was a fraction of that cost.