5 ms·

It's a bit of a gimmick. These phones just don't have the noise performance to make log video work outside if very very specific conditions. I had it also on my

It's a bit of a gimmick. These phones just don't have the noise performance to make log video work outside if very very specific conditions. I had it also on my old LG V30 and it only was remotely useful in full sunlight (and since we're talking about very low processing, not much changed since then). This is inevitable because the noise floor is just too high to have a large usable dynamic range unless illumination is high. Combined with video compression it's just not great. It's not really even unique to smartphones, many DSLRs/MILCs when they first started supporting log video had similar issues, but obviously it's going to be much worse for a smartphone.

dharma1 3y ago
The sensor size is the limiting factor here re: noise performance and dynamic range, but the iPhone does better than most with some ML and other “computational photography” tricks for denoising that other small sensor cameras don’t have. And ProRes is a great codec that doesn’t really have compression artifacts at high bitrates. It’s not going to replace your Alexa or even full frame dSLR but can be useful and is a welcome evolution.
- sudosysgen 3y ago
  ProRes is actually worse at the same bitrate when compared to H.265 or AV1, and sometimes even worse than H.264. The advantage is that it's easier to edit because it's all intraframe, not that it has higher quality - it's worse. Even intraframe HEVC is going to be better than ProRes. H.265 really is going to give you consistently better pSNR and SSMI than ProRes, and that shouldn't be surprising - interframe compression is better for quality. The only advantage here is slightly better denoising, yes. But denoising doesn't change the dynamic range limit, it just hides the noise visually. The SNR is actually going to be lower.
mirsadm 3y ago
This is not true. We've compared RAW video from smartphone cameras to a couple of professional cameras and the difference is not as much as you might think.
- internetter 3y ago
  See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUn68iFMNXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUn68iFMNXY. Remarkably similar. Big difference seems to be unavoidable differences arising from a small sensor like bokeh and DOF, and especially the consistency of colour from the ARRI which makes grading a breeze. But the fact that iPhone footage can be intermingled with 100$k camera footage (after grade) without being noticeable is shocking
  - sudosysgen 3y ago
    Why should it be? The V30 came out in 2017 and people made exactly the same videos about it, about how you could intermingle the footage with an Alexa or a RED. You can, yes, only in perfect light and if the focal/aperture works for the scene. That's rare, and that's why it hasn't caught on.
- sudosysgen 3y ago
  I don't understand what you're trying to say. Yes, in absolutely perfect light, if it has the focal length you need, it's going to be good. But that's a very particular situation, we both know that as soon as the ISO comes up it's not even close, and soon enough shooting in log then becomes a gimmick.
  - foldr 3y ago
    Have you done any comparisons that you can point to? The iPhone 15 hasn't even been out all that long. The video in the sibling comment notes that the iPhone does surprisingly well in terms of dynamic range, for example (7:12).
    - sudosysgen 3y ago
      There are two limiting factors in dynamic range. Those are the dynamic range of the sensor itself (which is and has been great, even on my V30), and the difference between the highlights and the noise floor - and the noise floor is fixed. The iPhone 15 doesn't have a meaningfully lower noise floor than the iPhone 14 and it's only barely better than the V30 - or any other smartphone with a BSI sensor and a large aperture. The video is exactly consistent with what I'm saying. All examples are either in broad daylight or strong studio lighting.
HumblyTossed 3y ago
Okay. Well, um, I guess we should all just pack up and go home. We're done.

dharma1 3y ago

The sensor size is the limiting factor here re: noise performance and dynamic range, but the iPhone does better than most with some ML and other “computational photography” tricks for denoising that other small sensor cameras don’t have. And ProRes is a great codec that doesn’t really have compression artifacts at high bitrates. It’s not going to replace your Alexa or even full frame dSLR but can be useful and is a welcome evolution.

sudosysgen 3y ago
ProRes is actually worse at the same bitrate when compared to H.265 or AV1, and sometimes even worse than H.264. The advantage is that it's easier to edit because it's all intraframe, not that it has higher quality - it's worse. Even intraframe HEVC is going to be better than ProRes. H.265 really is going to give you consistently better pSNR and SSMI than ProRes, and that shouldn't be surprising - interframe compression is better for quality. The only advantage here is slightly better denoising, yes. But denoising doesn't change the dynamic range limit, it just hides the noise visually. The SNR is actually going to be lower.

mirsadm 3y ago

This is not true. We've compared RAW video from smartphone cameras to a couple of professional cameras and the difference is not as much as you might think.

internetter 3y ago
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUn68iFMNXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUn68iFMNXY. Remarkably similar. Big difference seems to be unavoidable differences arising from a small sensor like bokeh and DOF, and especially the consistency of colour from the ARRI which makes grading a breeze. But the fact that iPhone footage can be intermingled with 100$k camera footage (after grade) without being noticeable is shocking
- sudosysgen 3y ago
  Why should it be? The V30 came out in 2017 and people made exactly the same videos about it, about how you could intermingle the footage with an Alexa or a RED. You can, yes, only in perfect light and if the focal/aperture works for the scene. That's rare, and that's why it hasn't caught on.
sudosysgen 3y ago
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Yes, in absolutely perfect light, if it has the focal length you need, it's going to be good. But that's a very particular situation, we both know that as soon as the ISO comes up it's not even close, and soon enough shooting in log then becomes a gimmick.
- foldr 3y ago
  Have you done any comparisons that you can point to? The iPhone 15 hasn't even been out all that long. The video in the sibling comment notes that the iPhone does surprisingly well in terms of dynamic range, for example (7:12).
  - sudosysgen 3y ago
    There are two limiting factors in dynamic range. Those are the dynamic range of the sensor itself (which is and has been great, even on my V30), and the difference between the highlights and the noise floor - and the noise floor is fixed. The iPhone 15 doesn't have a meaningfully lower noise floor than the iPhone 14 and it's only barely better than the V30 - or any other smartphone with a BSI sensor and a large aperture. The video is exactly consistent with what I'm saying. All examples are either in broad daylight or strong studio lighting.

HumblyTossed 3y ago

Okay. Well, um, I guess we should all just pack up and go home. We're done.