3 ms·

Source 2 already has rendering backends for d3d9, 11, opengl and vulkan. There's no reason why they can't support metal besides a refusal to task someone to it.

littlestymaar 3y ago
Lack of users means lack of budget to pay for the said “someone”. Also, there's no reason why Apple can't support OpenGL properly either, there “no reason besides the refusal to task someone to it”.
- Shekelphile 3y ago
  > Also, there's no reason why Apple can't support OpenGL properly either, there “no reason besides the refusal to task someone to it”. They do. OpenGL is deprecated, but still supported. If it wasn't supported at all it would not have worked on apple silicon macs.
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    Note that I said “supported properly” above. In addition to the very high number of bugs in Apple's implementation, the fact that it is officially deprecated sends a message to anyone wanting to do new development on MacOS “don't invest in OpenGL now as we could pull the rug under your feet” and it's done on purpose to push developers to Metal. So now they can only blame themselves if they're losing games because the developer doesn't want to invest in Metal either.
    - Shekelphile 3y ago
      > In addition to the very high number of bugs in Apple's implementation Many of those 'bugs' remain unfixed to maintain backwards compatibility, not because Apple doesn't want to fix them. > the fact that it is officially deprecated sends a message to anyone wanting to do new development on MacOS “don't invest in OpenGL now as we could pull the rug under your feet” and it's done on purpose to push developers to Metal. As it should be. > So now they can only blame themselves if they're losing games because the developer doesn't want to invest in Metal either. There's nothing to 'invest' in. Metal is by far the simplest low level graphics API out of all I've used and it would not be hard for valve to write a source 2 rendering backend for it (few days/weeks at most for an experienced dev). There's plenty of AAA games being properly ported to apple silicon now and in a year or two there will be many more. Valve intentionally withdrawing themselves from the ecosystem is purely out of spite.
      - phone8675309 3y ago
        > it would not be hard for valve to write a source 2 rendering backend for it (few days/weeks at most for an experienced dev). Put your money where your mouth is and write one. Just write one. If it's that easy, do it. Which is more likely - a company that dumps tons and tons of resources into Linux, Wine, DXVK, and put out the Steam deck didn't do this supposedly easy thing because they just don't care or could it be that they don't have the talent in house and wouldn't recoup their investment by doing it?
        Shekelphile 3y ago
        > Put your money where your mouth is and write one. Just write one. If it's that easy, do it. I can't because source 2's source code isn't available. > Which is more likely - a company that dumps tons and tons of resources into Linux, Wine, DXVK, and put out the Steam deck didn't do this supposedly easy thing because they just don't care or could it be that they don't have the talent in house and wouldn't recoup their investment by doing it? They don't have the talent? That's funny, considering Valve ported all their games to macOS many years before they ported to linux.
        phone8675309 3y ago
        > I can't because source 2's source code isn't available. Perhaps then refrain from telling everyone how easy it as when you have no idea what’s going on in the code. > That's funny, considering Valve ported all their games to macOS many years before they ported to linux. Are those people still at the company? Either they are not or they’re doing a piss poor job at advocating for their platform.
        Shekelphile 3y ago
        > Perhaps then refrain from telling everyone how easy it as when you have no idea what’s going on in the code. I've been reverse engineering source engine games and modding them on and off for the last ~15 years, I almost certainly know more about it than you.

littlestymaar 3y ago

Lack of users means lack of budget to pay for the said “someone”. Also, there's no reason why Apple can't support OpenGL properly either, there “no reason besides the refusal to task someone to it”.

Shekelphile 3y ago
> Also, there's no reason why Apple can't support OpenGL properly either, there “no reason besides the refusal to task someone to it”. They do. OpenGL is deprecated, but still supported. If it wasn't supported at all it would not have worked on apple silicon macs.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  Note that I said “supported properly” above. In addition to the very high number of bugs in Apple's implementation, the fact that it is officially deprecated sends a message to anyone wanting to do new development on MacOS “don't invest in OpenGL now as we could pull the rug under your feet” and it's done on purpose to push developers to Metal. So now they can only blame themselves if they're losing games because the developer doesn't want to invest in Metal either.
  - Shekelphile 3y ago
    > In addition to the very high number of bugs in Apple's implementation Many of those 'bugs' remain unfixed to maintain backwards compatibility, not because Apple doesn't want to fix them. > the fact that it is officially deprecated sends a message to anyone wanting to do new development on MacOS “don't invest in OpenGL now as we could pull the rug under your feet” and it's done on purpose to push developers to Metal. As it should be. > So now they can only blame themselves if they're losing games because the developer doesn't want to invest in Metal either. There's nothing to 'invest' in. Metal is by far the simplest low level graphics API out of all I've used and it would not be hard for valve to write a source 2 rendering backend for it (few days/weeks at most for an experienced dev). There's plenty of AAA games being properly ported to apple silicon now and in a year or two there will be many more. Valve intentionally withdrawing themselves from the ecosystem is purely out of spite.
    - phone8675309 3y ago
      > it would not be hard for valve to write a source 2 rendering backend for it (few days/weeks at most for an experienced dev). Put your money where your mouth is and write one. Just write one. If it's that easy, do it. Which is more likely - a company that dumps tons and tons of resources into Linux, Wine, DXVK, and put out the Steam deck didn't do this supposedly easy thing because they just don't care or could it be that they don't have the talent in house and wouldn't recoup their investment by doing it?
      - Shekelphile 3y ago
        > Put your money where your mouth is and write one. Just write one. If it's that easy, do it. I can't because source 2's source code isn't available. > Which is more likely - a company that dumps tons and tons of resources into Linux, Wine, DXVK, and put out the Steam deck didn't do this supposedly easy thing because they just don't care or could it be that they don't have the talent in house and wouldn't recoup their investment by doing it? They don't have the talent? That's funny, considering Valve ported all their games to macOS many years before they ported to linux.
        phone8675309 3y ago
        > I can't because source 2's source code isn't available. Perhaps then refrain from telling everyone how easy it as when you have no idea what’s going on in the code. > That's funny, considering Valve ported all their games to macOS many years before they ported to linux. Are those people still at the company? Either they are not or they’re doing a piss poor job at advocating for their platform.
        Shekelphile 3y ago
        > Perhaps then refrain from telling everyone how easy it as when you have no idea what’s going on in the code. I've been reverse engineering source engine games and modding them on and off for the last ~15 years, I almost certainly know more about it than you.