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Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caoineadh_Airt_U%C3%AD_Laoghaire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caoineadh_Airt_U%C3%AD_Laoghai... I got interested in Iri

Context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caoineadh_Airt_U%C3%AD_Laoghaire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caoineadh_Airt_U%C3%AD_Laoghai... I got interested in Irish having listened to Clannad in high school; at the uni library, I got hold of an Irish textbook, along with a bilingual anthology of Irish poetry ('An Duanaire: Poems of the Dispossessed', edited by Seán Ó Tuama) where the Caoineadh featured prominently.

mjfl 3y ago
Any chance that Irish writing could be re-phoneticized? I tried learning Irish for fun but it was tough because all the letters sounded in a really unexpected way. (I also think that English should be re-phoneticized for what it's worth)
- brendoelfrendo 3y ago
  My understanding is that Irish orthography is different, but highly consistent. So once you overcome the initial hurdle of understanding how different phonemes are pronounced, you're mostly good to go. I tend to think of the Irish alphabet as similar to but subtly distinct from the English alphabet: the two languages use the same Latin characters, but have different sounds associated with them.
- dghughes 3y ago
  I tried to learn it and basically it helps if you at least know the sounds of H letters/consonants which throw off English speakers. mh or bh = V, ch = sloppy och "loch" (means lake) rhymes with Bach, dh and gh = guttural G, fh = silent.
  - dmurray 3y ago
    Good start but mh and bh can also be W, dh and gh can also be Y or silent. I'd add: ph = F, sh = H, th = H or silent.
    - dghughes 3y ago
      Yeah dialects throw a monkey wrench into it I think some bh can be V or W. Maybe concentrating on a specific dialect may help with learning. Maybe that was my problem if I though it was W and then V and then W again.
- rbanffy 3y ago
  I gather they won their independence in no small part due to infuriating the invaders with phoneticisation. I live in Ireland and was onde fluent in Hungarian. I laugh at anyone who says Hungarian is the hardest language to learn. They obviously never saw Irish.
  - lettergram 3y ago
    My wife and I spent a few years practicing Irish. Enough we could have small talk in it and when we traveled to Ireland we could read all the signs and understand when people spoke it. I look at welsh and still go wtf lol I find Irish easier when you put on the accent tbh. Makes much more sense when you read / speak it like that
    - chris_j 3y ago
      > I look at welsh and still go wtf lol Ironically, Welsh is a much simpler language than Irish, and easier to learn for an English speaker. Almost completely regular orthography, much simpler grammar (with no grammatical cases). But, simple or not, the grammar and orthography are very different to English. Do you mind if I ask how you learned Irish? It's a language that I would like to learn a little of at some point, but so far I've been too daunted to attempt it.
      - username135 3y ago
        Late to the party but Duolingo is pretty good.
  - fullspectrumdev 3y ago
    Part of the issue is that Irish is - in a large way - a reconstructed language. It was almost wiped out, and then basically rebuilt from a bunch of isolated regional dialects and extremely limited source material. A lot of Irish speaking communities historically had a largely oral tradition. A LOT of mistakes (or weird choices) were made in the standardisation of the “new Irish” back in the day, which have been made worse by the way it’s taught in most schools - it’s taught almost entirely as a written language, not a conversational language. Some suspect this might be linked to how it was reconstructed, the people “standardising” the language were focused almost entirely on it being a written language as opposed to a spoken one. There is very limited focus placed on actually speaking the language as a spoken language in how it’s taught, unless you go to an Irish language only school.
- nathell 3y ago
  Manx orthography has gone that way. Try it out!

mjfl 3y ago

Any chance that Irish writing could be re-phoneticized? I tried learning Irish for fun but it was tough because all the letters sounded in a really unexpected way. (I also think that English should be re-phoneticized for what it's worth)

brendoelfrendo 3y ago
My understanding is that Irish orthography is different, but highly consistent. So once you overcome the initial hurdle of understanding how different phonemes are pronounced, you're mostly good to go. I tend to think of the Irish alphabet as similar to but subtly distinct from the English alphabet: the two languages use the same Latin characters, but have different sounds associated with them.
dghughes 3y ago
I tried to learn it and basically it helps if you at least know the sounds of H letters/consonants which throw off English speakers. mh or bh = V, ch = sloppy och "loch" (means lake) rhymes with Bach, dh and gh = guttural G, fh = silent.
- dmurray 3y ago
  Good start but mh and bh can also be W, dh and gh can also be Y or silent. I'd add: ph = F, sh = H, th = H or silent.
  - dghughes 3y ago
    Yeah dialects throw a monkey wrench into it I think some bh can be V or W. Maybe concentrating on a specific dialect may help with learning. Maybe that was my problem if I though it was W and then V and then W again.
rbanffy 3y ago
I gather they won their independence in no small part due to infuriating the invaders with phoneticisation. I live in Ireland and was onde fluent in Hungarian. I laugh at anyone who says Hungarian is the hardest language to learn. They obviously never saw Irish.
- lettergram 3y ago
  My wife and I spent a few years practicing Irish. Enough we could have small talk in it and when we traveled to Ireland we could read all the signs and understand when people spoke it. I look at welsh and still go wtf lol I find Irish easier when you put on the accent tbh. Makes much more sense when you read / speak it like that
  - chris_j 3y ago
    > I look at welsh and still go wtf lol Ironically, Welsh is a much simpler language than Irish, and easier to learn for an English speaker. Almost completely regular orthography, much simpler grammar (with no grammatical cases). But, simple or not, the grammar and orthography are very different to English. Do you mind if I ask how you learned Irish? It's a language that I would like to learn a little of at some point, but so far I've been too daunted to attempt it.
    - username135 3y ago
      Late to the party but Duolingo is pretty good.
- fullspectrumdev 3y ago
  Part of the issue is that Irish is - in a large way - a reconstructed language. It was almost wiped out, and then basically rebuilt from a bunch of isolated regional dialects and extremely limited source material. A lot of Irish speaking communities historically had a largely oral tradition. A LOT of mistakes (or weird choices) were made in the standardisation of the “new Irish” back in the day, which have been made worse by the way it’s taught in most schools - it’s taught almost entirely as a written language, not a conversational language. Some suspect this might be linked to how it was reconstructed, the people “standardising” the language were focused almost entirely on it being a written language as opposed to a spoken one. There is very limited focus placed on actually speaking the language as a spoken language in how it’s taught, unless you go to an Irish language only school.
nathell 3y ago
Manx orthography has gone that way. Try it out!