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Yup. Even Toyota, a big H2 promoter is bailing and announcing high-range. solid-state, fast charging batteries [0, 1, 2]. Makes me wonder if the H2 promotion

by toss1 3y ago

Yup. Even Toyota, a big H2 promoter is bailing and announcing high-range. solid-state, fast charging batteries [0, 1, 2]. Makes me wonder if the H2 promotion was just a ruse to misdirect the rest of the industry while it caught up, and possibly even leapfrogged (we'll see if their announcements play out), on battery tech? [0] Toyota Teases Solid-State Batteries in 2027 https://spectrum.ieee.org/toyota-solid-state-battery https://spectrum.ieee.org/toyota-solid-state-battery [1] Toyota reveals its plan to catch up on EV battery technology Three liquid chemistries, solid state cells, and flatter battery packs. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/09/toyota-reveals-its-plan-to-catch-up-on-ev-battery-technology/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/09/toyota-reveals-its-plan... [2] LGES to supply Toyota with batteries, invest $3 billion in US plant https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-lg-energy-sign-battery-supply-agreement-power-evs-2023-10-04/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota...

mulmen 3y ago
I think Toyota also had their hands tied a bit because the entire country of Japan has heavily invested in hydrogen. I can understand why it makes sense strategically for a country like Japan without their own oil (or lithium?) reserves. Toyota is a Japanese industrial powerhouse so I wouldn’t be surprised if they were receiving subsidies and maybe even direction on hydrogen research. Only now that they have invested enough to prove hydrogen is a fantasy can they move on to batteries. I’m not sure it’s such a loss though. Nissan was early with the Leaf but nobody talks about them as cornering the EV market. Toyota can benefit from the battery advancements everyone else made over the last 15 years and catch up quickly. At the time it made sense to invest in hydrogen. And in hindsight it wasn’t as much of a mistake as it might seem. It was a moonshot but they didn’t risk their existence on it and if it had worked they’d look like geniuses. If hydrogen was feasible Toyota and Japan would be world leaders in energy tech or at least have secure domestic energy independence.
- pauldenton 3y ago
  Maybe it just needs to work in their borders Japan had a unique response to the 1973 oil crisis. Given recent instability in Russia/Ukraine, Afghanistan after the Withdrawal, and now Israel, having a hedge against petroleum primarily sourced in the Middle East and Russia it's a smart hedge to have. Besides, Americans have switched from wanting big extravagant American Made cars to small fuel efficient ones from Japan before
pornel 3y ago
I think Toyota is making these pie-in-the-sky announcements to Osborne[1] other manufacturer's BEVs, and delay electrification too, because Toyota's actual battery tech that exist is far behind their competitors. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
- toss1 3y ago
  Yes, real possibility, but note that the direction is still away from H1 and towards batteries

by toss1 3y ago

mulmen 3y ago

I think Toyota also had their hands tied a bit because the entire country of Japan has heavily invested in hydrogen. I can understand why it makes sense strategically for a country like Japan without their own oil (or lithium?) reserves. Toyota is a Japanese industrial powerhouse so I wouldn’t be surprised if they were receiving subsidies and maybe even direction on hydrogen research. Only now that they have invested enough to prove hydrogen is a fantasy can they move on to batteries. I’m not sure it’s such a loss though. Nissan was early with the Leaf but nobody talks about them as cornering the EV market. Toyota can benefit from the battery advancements everyone else made over the last 15 years and catch up quickly. At the time it made sense to invest in hydrogen. And in hindsight it wasn’t as much of a mistake as it might seem. It was a moonshot but they didn’t risk their existence on it and if it had worked they’d look like geniuses. If hydrogen was feasible Toyota and Japan would be world leaders in energy tech or at least have secure domestic energy independence.

pauldenton 3y ago
Maybe it just needs to work in their borders Japan had a unique response to the 1973 oil crisis. Given recent instability in Russia/Ukraine, Afghanistan after the Withdrawal, and now Israel, having a hedge against petroleum primarily sourced in the Middle East and Russia it's a smart hedge to have. Besides, Americans have switched from wanting big extravagant American Made cars to small fuel efficient ones from Japan before

pornel 3y ago

I think Toyota is making these pie-in-the-sky announcements to Osborne[1] other manufacturer's BEVs, and delay electrification too, because Toyota's actual battery tech that exist is far behind their competitors. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

toss1 3y ago
Yes, real possibility, but note that the direction is still away from H1 and towards batteries