3 ms·

It looks like this is just a reporting requirement and no quotas are mandated. I imagine the intent is to indirectly push companies to improve diversity through

It looks like this is just a reporting requirement and no quotas are mandated. I imagine the intent is to indirectly push companies to improve diversity through embarrassment by public numbers. However, these are private individuals funding private ventures with private money, as far as I know, so why the government should be involved at all in that process other than taxation isn't clear to me.

Ferret7446 3y ago
I'll invoke Godwin given the obvious connection, the Jews "only" had to wear stars. Similar situations happen again, and again, and again throughout history, and those that forget history...
- pauldenton 3y ago
  More direct comparison would be Jews were excluded from Colleges for the same reason Asians are excluded today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universities_and_antisemitism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universities_and_antisemitism Fears of overrepresentation. Doing too well on the grading standards
SenAnder 3y ago
This is one step in a long march. If you can remember this march, the next step is obvious. The Civil Rights Act didn't directly ban using IQ tests for hiring/promotions, yet that's how the courts eventually interpreted it [1]. More recently, a test specifically made to evaluate teachers was declared racist and discriminatory [2], mostly based on disparate pass rates, but in part also on requiring some "cultural knowledge". Ironic, since imparting culture is a large part of a teacher's job - outside of STEM, nearly all knowledge is culturally biased (i.e. there is greater emphasis on US history in the US than in Poland). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co. [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20220714122944/https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-latino-teachers-collecting-835-million-in-discrimination-lawsuit-11657800508 https://web.archive.org/web/20220714122944/https://www.wsj.c...
- Spivak 3y ago
  I'm not really sure how you read those and think the shady activity is on the part of the government. You're missing the left foot of the march which is, "people discover an 'unbiased' assessment that gives them the results they want and then standardize on it." And then the right foot is the courts not being stupid and smacking it down for obvious racism. I guarantee you if IQ wasn't a measure that affluent white privately educated men did well at it would have never been adopted as a measure.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    Asians do better on IQ, Asians do better in college. What happened wasn't that we stopped caring about IQ or college, instead those who oppose them started treating Asians as white and saying they don't count. So it seems like the people who change like the wind here aren't those in favor of merits.
  - Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago
    >I guarantee you if IQ wasn't a measure white people did well at it would have never been adopted as a measure. Even scientists who say the black-white IQ gap is not in part due to genetic factors agree that it does measure intelligence to some extent: that is, people with higher intelligence do better on average on IQ tests, even if each IQ point is not a numeral unit adding to your intelligence 'score.' All this said, why would you assume that people using this tests only are doing so for biased reasons?
    - yawboakye 3y ago
      it's still not clear what IQ measures, in the grand scheme of things. and i think this is the bulk of its problem. what sort of intelligence? relevant for what? unfortunately, the laziest among us who see these standardize tests are easy way to do their job embraced it wholeheartedly and have deployed it wickedly. at what point should an IQ test be taken? and what's its expiry date? mr. cipolla wrote his seminal basic laws of human stupidity[0] some 70 years after IQ tests were introduced. perhaps not important in the grand scheme of things but one wonders why there's not even as much as a mere allusion. [0]: http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/ http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidit...

Ferret7446 3y ago

I'll invoke Godwin given the obvious connection, the Jews "only" had to wear stars. Similar situations happen again, and again, and again throughout history, and those that forget history...

pauldenton 3y ago
More direct comparison would be Jews were excluded from Colleges for the same reason Asians are excluded today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universities_and_antisemitism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universities_and_antisemitism Fears of overrepresentation. Doing too well on the grading standards

SenAnder 3y ago

This is one step in a long march. If you can remember this march, the next step is obvious. The Civil Rights Act didn't directly ban using IQ tests for hiring/promotions, yet that's how the courts eventually interpreted it [1]. More recently, a test specifically made to evaluate teachers was declared racist and discriminatory [2], mostly based on disparate pass rates, but in part also on requiring some "cultural knowledge". Ironic, since imparting culture is a large part of a teacher's job - outside of STEM, nearly all knowledge is culturally biased (i.e. there is greater emphasis on US history in the US than in Poland). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co. [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20220714122944/https://www.wsj.com/articles/black-latino-teachers-collecting-835-million-in-discrimination-lawsuit-11657800508 https://web.archive.org/web/20220714122944/https://www.wsj.c...

Spivak 3y ago
I'm not really sure how you read those and think the shady activity is on the part of the government. You're missing the left foot of the march which is, "people discover an 'unbiased' assessment that gives them the results they want and then standardize on it." And then the right foot is the courts not being stupid and smacking it down for obvious racism. I guarantee you if IQ wasn't a measure that affluent white privately educated men did well at it would have never been adopted as a measure.
- Jensson 3y ago
  Asians do better on IQ, Asians do better in college. What happened wasn't that we stopped caring about IQ or college, instead those who oppose them started treating Asians as white and saying they don't count. So it seems like the people who change like the wind here aren't those in favor of merits.
- Vt71fcAqt7 3y ago
  >I guarantee you if IQ wasn't a measure white people did well at it would have never been adopted as a measure. Even scientists who say the black-white IQ gap is not in part due to genetic factors agree that it does measure intelligence to some extent: that is, people with higher intelligence do better on average on IQ tests, even if each IQ point is not a numeral unit adding to your intelligence 'score.' All this said, why would you assume that people using this tests only are doing so for biased reasons?
  - yawboakye 3y ago
    it's still not clear what IQ measures, in the grand scheme of things. and i think this is the bulk of its problem. what sort of intelligence? relevant for what? unfortunately, the laziest among us who see these standardize tests are easy way to do their job embraced it wholeheartedly and have deployed it wickedly. at what point should an IQ test be taken? and what's its expiry date? mr. cipolla wrote his seminal basic laws of human stupidity[0] some 70 years after IQ tests were introduced. perhaps not important in the grand scheme of things but one wonders why there's not even as much as a mere allusion. [0]: http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidity/ http://harmful.cat-v.org/people/basic-laws-of-human-stupidit...