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I've witnessed several people AMA from hospitals. All of them were not being treated well for pain and even in cases where there were calls for psych staff to

I've witnessed several people AMA from hospitals. All of them were not being treated well for pain and even in cases where there were calls for psych staff to help - there was imo below minimal mental / emotional support given. In a couple of the cases the people were able to find better pain medicine on the street faster than they could even get a doctor to answer a nurses call to deny - and being able to find just one person who would listen or offer any other emotional support was better than what they got paying 10,000$ or whatever it is to stay in a luxurious beeping room. I'm talking about people with real pain - not a junkie looking for a fix. I believe these issues have been exasperated since 2019- it appears that most hospital staff is burn out and no longer fit for the job of handling stressed out, hurting people. 2 out of 3 hospitals around here have big signs all over the place stating they have zero tolerance for rude or abusive people. This policy itself is abused, and it's led to an even worse power dynamic / class war that is making hospitals worse for care, and sending more people to illicit pain management solutions. small data points. more does not equal all - ymmv.

jnovek 3y ago
I’m an anecdote, but I deal with chronic pain that is thankfully well-managed at the moment. When it wasn’t as well-managed my experience was that apathy among medical professionals was the norm and compassion was the exception. I’ve had particularly bad experiences in the ER and I’m reluctant to even go there anymore. There’s a whole performative thing you have to do at the ER to “demonstrate” that you’re not a drug seeker and it’s difficult for me because I am somewhat stoical in my expression of pain. I don’t know what’s wrong with the medical system that has created such apathy toward pain, but it feels like it goes beyond just concern over drug-seeking. It’s a critical problem.
- swayvil 3y ago
  >I don’t know what’s wrong with the medical system that has created such apathy toward pain I think it's that they are harassed 24-7 by addicts seeking drugs. A callous forms. If you are the legit rarity then so sorry. It's a problem with government policy that demonizes addicts and makes drugs hard to get. It's a problem with a pharmaceutical industry that seems to be playing games with supply and manufacturing. It's a problem with a medical industry that maximizes profits by hiring the smallest medical staff possible and running them ragged. It's a dog's dinner all around. In a better world we'd probably hang the bastards. But realistically, I guess what we need is more black-market drug manufacturers. Basement percocet labs. Backyard opium farms.
  - stevenicr 3y ago
    "I think it's that they are harassed 24-7 by addicts seeking drugs." - I don't think this is an issue, or is very minor - although maybe it is different in different places? Perhaps places like portland or frisco are different than around my neck of the woods or are outliers compared to the country as a whole (?) - happy to get actual data.. not sure why anyone would go through the torture of an ER visit for drugs as an addict when you could hold up a piece of trash cardboard for 30 minutes and get enough cash to buy any dope you want within a stones through of any street corner easily these days. My thinking on this issue is that the 'war on drugs' has had many side effects that are worse than the cure, some thoughts: Lawsuits that cost big money have been filed and succeeded against pharmacies, individual doctors, clinics, hospitals and such right? (this scares the shit out of the people in charge and makes them force underlings to virtually stop prescribing anything that could cost money via suits) Criminal charges for all these (doctors, dentists, clinics, hospitals, etc) - and not just charges, but also investigations - harassing staff, demanding paperwork, under cover investigations trying to trick people into making mistakes - ending up on a 'list' - even if you are not doing anything wrong, certain numbers or algorithms from a pharmacy can trigger being looked at - the threat of having your ability to write pain meds - this could make it so you don't can't do many higher dollar services (think dentist, surgeon) - makes people err on the side of less meds than you may need.. All these places seem to want to punt on the responsibility.. eg - go to ER with pain level 9 for tooth infection - they give you a tylenol tell you to follow up with a dentist or primary care doc - This war has created situations where pharmacies are blocking meds to patients against doctor's written instructions, doctors worry what pharmacies will do - worry about dea will do - worry what investors will do - worry if they can keep a license to work, if they can stay out of jail, if they can pay student loans and home mortgages - they worry about many things more than they care for the health and well being of the patient, your family member or whoever. There is also a class war going on - from what I have seen it's what language a person uses at a ER / clinic / DR - as jnovek mentioned 'There’s a whole performative thing you have to do at the ER to “demonstrate” that you’re not a' - there is a quick breakdown in these situations where a DR or nurse takes offense to language or the patient does not know how to communicate pain and suffering in the flower-y language that doctors are used to - There are more factors, surely I am not thinking of them all at during this 5 minute reply post. The extreme torture I have recently witnessed when this type of thing occurred was quite disturbing. Even if you don't pray, pray that you never end up in an American hospital with extreme pain that does not show up on their cat scans well. imho, ymmv.
popupeyecare 3y ago
Anesthesiologist here. Pain sucks. It’s notoriously hard to treat. Hard to measure. And most of our treatments for it have real, often life threatening, side effects. I get no greater pleasure as a doctor as to when I get someone painfree. Luckily I have some tools, like nerve blocks, which help in certain cases but even that’s limited. Pain just sucks.

jnovek 3y ago

I’m an anecdote, but I deal with chronic pain that is thankfully well-managed at the moment. When it wasn’t as well-managed my experience was that apathy among medical professionals was the norm and compassion was the exception. I’ve had particularly bad experiences in the ER and I’m reluctant to even go there anymore. There’s a whole performative thing you have to do at the ER to “demonstrate” that you’re not a drug seeker and it’s difficult for me because I am somewhat stoical in my expression of pain. I don’t know what’s wrong with the medical system that has created such apathy toward pain, but it feels like it goes beyond just concern over drug-seeking. It’s a critical problem.

swayvil 3y ago
>I don’t know what’s wrong with the medical system that has created such apathy toward pain I think it's that they are harassed 24-7 by addicts seeking drugs. A callous forms. If you are the legit rarity then so sorry. It's a problem with government policy that demonizes addicts and makes drugs hard to get. It's a problem with a pharmaceutical industry that seems to be playing games with supply and manufacturing. It's a problem with a medical industry that maximizes profits by hiring the smallest medical staff possible and running them ragged. It's a dog's dinner all around. In a better world we'd probably hang the bastards. But realistically, I guess what we need is more black-market drug manufacturers. Basement percocet labs. Backyard opium farms.
- stevenicr 3y ago
  "I think it's that they are harassed 24-7 by addicts seeking drugs." - I don't think this is an issue, or is very minor - although maybe it is different in different places? Perhaps places like portland or frisco are different than around my neck of the woods or are outliers compared to the country as a whole (?) - happy to get actual data.. not sure why anyone would go through the torture of an ER visit for drugs as an addict when you could hold up a piece of trash cardboard for 30 minutes and get enough cash to buy any dope you want within a stones through of any street corner easily these days. My thinking on this issue is that the 'war on drugs' has had many side effects that are worse than the cure, some thoughts: Lawsuits that cost big money have been filed and succeeded against pharmacies, individual doctors, clinics, hospitals and such right? (this scares the shit out of the people in charge and makes them force underlings to virtually stop prescribing anything that could cost money via suits) Criminal charges for all these (doctors, dentists, clinics, hospitals, etc) - and not just charges, but also investigations - harassing staff, demanding paperwork, under cover investigations trying to trick people into making mistakes - ending up on a 'list' - even if you are not doing anything wrong, certain numbers or algorithms from a pharmacy can trigger being looked at - the threat of having your ability to write pain meds - this could make it so you don't can't do many higher dollar services (think dentist, surgeon) - makes people err on the side of less meds than you may need.. All these places seem to want to punt on the responsibility.. eg - go to ER with pain level 9 for tooth infection - they give you a tylenol tell you to follow up with a dentist or primary care doc - This war has created situations where pharmacies are blocking meds to patients against doctor's written instructions, doctors worry what pharmacies will do - worry about dea will do - worry what investors will do - worry if they can keep a license to work, if they can stay out of jail, if they can pay student loans and home mortgages - they worry about many things more than they care for the health and well being of the patient, your family member or whoever. There is also a class war going on - from what I have seen it's what language a person uses at a ER / clinic / DR - as jnovek mentioned 'There’s a whole performative thing you have to do at the ER to “demonstrate” that you’re not a' - there is a quick breakdown in these situations where a DR or nurse takes offense to language or the patient does not know how to communicate pain and suffering in the flower-y language that doctors are used to - There are more factors, surely I am not thinking of them all at during this 5 minute reply post. The extreme torture I have recently witnessed when this type of thing occurred was quite disturbing. Even if you don't pray, pray that you never end up in an American hospital with extreme pain that does not show up on their cat scans well. imho, ymmv.

popupeyecare 3y ago

Anesthesiologist here. Pain sucks. It’s notoriously hard to treat. Hard to measure. And most of our treatments for it have real, often life threatening, side effects. I get no greater pleasure as a doctor as to when I get someone painfree. Luckily I have some tools, like nerve blocks, which help in certain cases but even that’s limited. Pain just sucks.