9 ms·

Giving everyone a basic income is more commonly called Universal Basic Income.

by meheleventyone 3y ago

neffy 3y ago
Or a pension.
- itishappy 3y ago
  Pensions are gated by age.
  - permo-w 3y ago
    and depend on how much you put into them
    - itishappy 3y ago
      Not always! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_pension https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_pension
      - permo-w 3y ago
        true
Detrytus 3y ago
But they are not giving it to everyone, just to homeless people. That does not warrant the "Universal" part of the name. EDIT: I think I misread the whole thing, it really does not say "Universal" anywhere :) Anyway, I think someone, soon will try to use this project as an argument in favor of UBI, which is ridiculous.
- ncallaway 3y ago
  Right, which is why it doesn't...have "Universal" in the name, and is referred to as a "Basic Income Project"
  - pdonis 3y ago
    Right, which is why claiming that this is a study of "universal basic income", as the GGP claimed, is wrong.
- meheleventyone 3y ago
  Exactly which is why the complaint the OP is making makes no sense. It’s Denver’s Basic Income Project and explicit in who gets it so complaining that it’s not universal is silly.
- suprjami 3y ago
  That's probably why it's called "Basic Income Project" and not "Universal Basic Income Project".
- itishappy 3y ago
  > I think someone, soon will try to use this project as an argument in favor of UBI, which is ridiculous. Why's that ridiculous? Testing a small scale trial on the people most likely to be effected by a larger scale program seems pretty reasonable to me.
  - Detrytus 3y ago
    But the UBI works completely different at small and large scales. When you test it at small scale it seems to be working exactly as expected. But when you try to introduce it globally (I mean, for the whole country), then it suddenly starts affecting economy as whole, and the only result you get is inflation, and no one is better of with UBI compared to their previous situation. When the news breaks that everyone will be getting free money the natural reaction of all the sellers and service providers is to raise prices. I mean, I know UBI haven't been tried at whole country scale, but the populist government in my country came pretty close, trying to bribe people with things like social security payments for parents (you get paid a pretty penny monthly for each child you have), or giving extra pension raises to retired people - basically giving away free money to everyone. And guess what? Inflation in my country peaked at 19% in February, luckily it fell down to like 8% in September.
    - M95D 3y ago
      That inflation is temporary. Most countries in Europe give money to parents and also have decent retirement payments. Inflation is not a problem, except for other external factors (Ukraine war, COVID measures).
      - Detrytus 3y ago
        That inflation is indeed temporary - it fulfills its role once the prices reach the level when UBI becomes irrelevant. Imagine a country where average income is 2000 USD per month. Now, you give everyone UBI of 1000 USD per month, so the prices keep rising until cumulative inflation reaches 50% - now 3000 USD buys you exactly the same standard of living as 2000 USD used to do before. So, inflation stops, but no one's life is better after UBI than it was before. And of course if the government decides to raise UBI from 1000 USD to 2000 USD then the next wave of inflation follows, cancelling any gains once again.

Giving everyone a basic income is more commonly called Universal Basic Income.

neffy 3y ago

Or a pension.

itishappy 3y ago
Pensions are gated by age.
- permo-w 3y ago
  and depend on how much you put into them
  - itishappy 3y ago
    Not always! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_pension https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_pension
    - permo-w 3y ago
      true

Detrytus 3y ago

But they are not giving it to everyone, just to homeless people. That does not warrant the "Universal" part of the name. EDIT: I think I misread the whole thing, it really does not say "Universal" anywhere :) Anyway, I think someone, soon will try to use this project as an argument in favor of UBI, which is ridiculous.

ncallaway 3y ago
Right, which is why it doesn't...have "Universal" in the name, and is referred to as a "Basic Income Project"
- pdonis 3y ago
  Right, which is why claiming that this is a study of "universal basic income", as the GGP claimed, is wrong.
meheleventyone 3y ago
Exactly which is why the complaint the OP is making makes no sense. It’s Denver’s Basic Income Project and explicit in who gets it so complaining that it’s not universal is silly.
suprjami 3y ago
That's probably why it's called "Basic Income Project" and not "Universal Basic Income Project".
itishappy 3y ago
> I think someone, soon will try to use this project as an argument in favor of UBI, which is ridiculous. Why's that ridiculous? Testing a small scale trial on the people most likely to be effected by a larger scale program seems pretty reasonable to me.
- Detrytus 3y ago
  But the UBI works completely different at small and large scales. When you test it at small scale it seems to be working exactly as expected. But when you try to introduce it globally (I mean, for the whole country), then it suddenly starts affecting economy as whole, and the only result you get is inflation, and no one is better of with UBI compared to their previous situation. When the news breaks that everyone will be getting free money the natural reaction of all the sellers and service providers is to raise prices. I mean, I know UBI haven't been tried at whole country scale, but the populist government in my country came pretty close, trying to bribe people with things like social security payments for parents (you get paid a pretty penny monthly for each child you have), or giving extra pension raises to retired people - basically giving away free money to everyone. And guess what? Inflation in my country peaked at 19% in February, luckily it fell down to like 8% in September.
  - M95D 3y ago
    That inflation is temporary. Most countries in Europe give money to parents and also have decent retirement payments. Inflation is not a problem, except for other external factors (Ukraine war, COVID measures).
    - Detrytus 3y ago
      That inflation is indeed temporary - it fulfills its role once the prices reach the level when UBI becomes irrelevant. Imagine a country where average income is 2000 USD per month. Now, you give everyone UBI of 1000 USD per month, so the prices keep rising until cumulative inflation reaches 50% - now 3000 USD buys you exactly the same standard of living as 2000 USD used to do before. So, inflation stops, but no one's life is better after UBI than it was before. And of course if the government decides to raise UBI from 1000 USD to 2000 USD then the next wave of inflation follows, cancelling any gains once again.