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> Apple has gone out of their way to prevent you from enjoying games on their systems. How, by having a different OS? Sorry about that I guess. (If it had nat

> Apple has gone out of their way to prevent you from enjoying games on their systems. How, by having a different OS? Sorry about that I guess. (If it had native Vulkan it wouldn't matter. The most effective strategy, the one Microsoft uses, is to buy all the game studios.) > And who do the users blame? Game makers - not Apple... Calling Valve a game maker is a stretch; as a company they're famously unwilling to actually make games. See gaben's allergy to the number 3.

Alupis 3y ago
> How, by having a different OS? Sorry about that I guess. > (If it had native Vulkan it wouldn't matter. The most effective strategy, the one Microsoft uses, is to buy all the game studios.) By making their OS easy to target by game makers. There's no good excuse - Apple has access to the same graphics pipelines as everyone else. XPlat game engines have boiled it down to mostly a checkbox these days... so where's OSX? Apple has a lot of work to do before that's a reality. > Calling Valve a game maker is a stretch; You can't be serious, are you? Valve's titles are among the most popular games in the history of games. They may make most of their money through Steam, but to say Valve doesn't make games is ridiculous. That wasn't even the point - Apple users will blame the actual studios/developers for not supporting OSX when the blame lies at Apple's feet. Billions in annual profit, zero f's given about gaming on their platform. It's a choice - and one Apple users need to comprehend. Apple doesn't care.
- robertoandred 3y ago
  You think cross-platform game engines don't support Metal? They do, and have for a decade.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    Who else supports Metal? Oh, that's right - only Apple. There's more to game support than just graphics API. Apple chooses to make game support on OSX hard - and shocker... you don't get games supporting OSX. Who can we blame? Apple... Just like Apple chooses to make Linux kernel support hard on M1/M2 and leaves it entirely up to volunteers to make it work. Who do you blame? The Kernel developers or Apple?
    - fingerlocks 3y ago
      The Metal API is heavily documented and Apple provides a plethora of code samples in four programming languages, with literal step-by-step how-to guides on porting from OpenGL to Metal. You can complain that they don’t support third party low-level frameworks, sure. But they definitely make it easy and inviting to support their homegrown solutions
      - Alupis 3y ago
        Why does Metal exist, when there's several very prevalent, performant, better graphics API's already available?
        fingerlocks 3y ago
        It was created before the others existed.
- astrange 3y ago
  > Valve doesn't make games is ridiculous Valve is not a normal company; there's no hierarchy and they're only capable of doing things if someone at the company decides to pay attention to it. Do you remember what happened to TF2? It first degraded into an item trading game, then they abandoned it for years and it was full of bots. There's no reason Overwatch and Apex should've replaced it except that they stopped fighting for it.
  - Alupis 3y ago
    TF2 was released in 2007... and has over 100k players playing right now as you read this[1]. Counter-Strike is still one of the most-played games ever. CS:GO had an average of almost 1 million daily players while AAA Games like CoD Warzone hover around 200-500k. DOTA/DOTA2 also rakes it in. They also have many very successful single-player games. Valve is a wildly successful game company - they just don't do the "yearly release" dance... [1] https://steamcharts.com/app/440 https://steamcharts.com/app/440
    - astrange 3y ago
      > TF2 was released in 2007... and has over 100k players playing right now as you read this[1]. They fixed it again after people sassed them enough about it, but it was always a better game than Overwatch and there's no reason people should've been tricked into playing that. (Though, I don't know if the people on right now are actually playing TF2 or just trading hats.)
    - hadlock 3y ago
      TF2 today is mostly unplayable due to bots and weirdness with their player matching game. I put a lot of hours into TF2 and the experience is almost unrecognizable today. CS:GO was, I think, completely outsourced to a third party. They still produce some game-like artifacts but primarily they're the owner and operator of the premier online games store
      - Alupis 3y ago
        CS:GO is complicated - it started as a console port of CS:Source by a 3rd party developer, then was taken in-house and transformed into a full stand-alone new Counter-Strike game. So, it was indeed developed by Valve. IDK anything about TF2 - but bots or not, 100k active daily players is nothing to sneeze at for a 16 year old game. They are indeed the premier online game store - yes... but saying they are not a game developer is absurd. They don't release a new title every year, but when they do, it's a huge hit.
GeekyBear 3y ago
> If it had native Vulkan Aside from a subset of Android devices, what platform has Vulkan as the default API? Windows/XBox has DirectX. Playstation has GNMX. Macs/iOS Devices have Metal. Nintendo uses NVN.
- astrange 3y ago
  Linux and Steam Deck, ironically. Though, for Windows it matters more what the GPU vendor wants you to use. Don't remember what that is atm.
- out_of_protocol 3y ago
  Windows, Linux, SteamOS, Android, Switch
  - astrange 3y ago
    NVN is the native API on Switch.
    - out_of_protocol 3y ago
      Nintendo does support Vulkan as first class citizen on switch, and there high chance this is the reason of so many ports (besides units sold)
- Alupis 3y ago
  Depends what you mean by "default". Windows ships with DirectX, OpenGL and Vulkan support. Call of Duty runs on Vulkan by default, for instance. Vulkan is notable as being new (doesn't have legacy baggage OpenGL and DirectX have), is natively cross-platform, and is often more performant than other options for modern games.
  - astrange 3y ago
    Vulkan is not cross-platform if you include cross-GPU vendor, because it's too low level for that. You'd want to rewrite for different GPUs.

Alupis 3y ago

> How, by having a different OS? Sorry about that I guess. > (If it had native Vulkan it wouldn't matter. The most effective strategy, the one Microsoft uses, is to buy all the game studios.) By making their OS easy to target by game makers. There's no good excuse - Apple has access to the same graphics pipelines as everyone else. XPlat game engines have boiled it down to mostly a checkbox these days... so where's OSX? Apple has a lot of work to do before that's a reality. > Calling Valve a game maker is a stretch; You can't be serious, are you? Valve's titles are among the most popular games in the history of games. They may make most of their money through Steam, but to say Valve doesn't make games is ridiculous. That wasn't even the point - Apple users will blame the actual studios/developers for not supporting OSX when the blame lies at Apple's feet. Billions in annual profit, zero f's given about gaming on their platform. It's a choice - and one Apple users need to comprehend. Apple doesn't care.

robertoandred 3y ago
You think cross-platform game engines don't support Metal? They do, and have for a decade.
- Alupis 3y ago
  Who else supports Metal? Oh, that's right - only Apple. There's more to game support than just graphics API. Apple chooses to make game support on OSX hard - and shocker... you don't get games supporting OSX. Who can we blame? Apple... Just like Apple chooses to make Linux kernel support hard on M1/M2 and leaves it entirely up to volunteers to make it work. Who do you blame? The Kernel developers or Apple?
  - fingerlocks 3y ago
    The Metal API is heavily documented and Apple provides a plethora of code samples in four programming languages, with literal step-by-step how-to guides on porting from OpenGL to Metal. You can complain that they don’t support third party low-level frameworks, sure. But they definitely make it easy and inviting to support their homegrown solutions
    - Alupis 3y ago
      Why does Metal exist, when there's several very prevalent, performant, better graphics API's already available?
      - fingerlocks 3y ago
        It was created before the others existed.
astrange 3y ago
> Valve doesn't make games is ridiculous Valve is not a normal company; there's no hierarchy and they're only capable of doing things if someone at the company decides to pay attention to it. Do you remember what happened to TF2? It first degraded into an item trading game, then they abandoned it for years and it was full of bots. There's no reason Overwatch and Apex should've replaced it except that they stopped fighting for it.
- Alupis 3y ago
  TF2 was released in 2007... and has over 100k players playing right now as you read this[1]. Counter-Strike is still one of the most-played games ever. CS:GO had an average of almost 1 million daily players while AAA Games like CoD Warzone hover around 200-500k. DOTA/DOTA2 also rakes it in. They also have many very successful single-player games. Valve is a wildly successful game company - they just don't do the "yearly release" dance... [1] https://steamcharts.com/app/440 https://steamcharts.com/app/440
  - astrange 3y ago
    > TF2 was released in 2007... and has over 100k players playing right now as you read this[1]. They fixed it again after people sassed them enough about it, but it was always a better game than Overwatch and there's no reason people should've been tricked into playing that. (Though, I don't know if the people on right now are actually playing TF2 or just trading hats.)
  - hadlock 3y ago
    TF2 today is mostly unplayable due to bots and weirdness with their player matching game. I put a lot of hours into TF2 and the experience is almost unrecognizable today. CS:GO was, I think, completely outsourced to a third party. They still produce some game-like artifacts but primarily they're the owner and operator of the premier online games store
    - Alupis 3y ago
      CS:GO is complicated - it started as a console port of CS:Source by a 3rd party developer, then was taken in-house and transformed into a full stand-alone new Counter-Strike game. So, it was indeed developed by Valve. IDK anything about TF2 - but bots or not, 100k active daily players is nothing to sneeze at for a 16 year old game. They are indeed the premier online game store - yes... but saying they are not a game developer is absurd. They don't release a new title every year, but when they do, it's a huge hit.

GeekyBear 3y ago

> If it had native Vulkan Aside from a subset of Android devices, what platform has Vulkan as the default API? Windows/XBox has DirectX. Playstation has GNMX. Macs/iOS Devices have Metal. Nintendo uses NVN.

astrange 3y ago
Linux and Steam Deck, ironically. Though, for Windows it matters more what the GPU vendor wants you to use. Don't remember what that is atm.
out_of_protocol 3y ago
Windows, Linux, SteamOS, Android, Switch
- astrange 3y ago
  NVN is the native API on Switch.
  - out_of_protocol 3y ago
    Nintendo does support Vulkan as first class citizen on switch, and there high chance this is the reason of so many ports (besides units sold)
Alupis 3y ago
Depends what you mean by "default". Windows ships with DirectX, OpenGL and Vulkan support. Call of Duty runs on Vulkan by default, for instance. Vulkan is notable as being new (doesn't have legacy baggage OpenGL and DirectX have), is natively cross-platform, and is often more performant than other options for modern games.
- astrange 3y ago
  Vulkan is not cross-platform if you include cross-GPU vendor, because it's too low level for that. You'd want to rewrite for different GPUs.