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My bubble is much different. It seems like every other week there's another multi-billion dollar aid package sent to Ukraine and everyone hates it.

justin66 3y ago
Does "everyone" think Ukraine doesn't need the aid to defend itself, or do they want to see them fall?
- siftrics 3y ago
  The parties more directly at risk (Europe) should bear the brunt of the aid, no?
  - justin66 3y ago
    That’s certainly a position one could take. In that context but also in the spirit of the original question, I wonder if the people in question think Europe is even capable of providing the amount of support that’s needed and if they would like to see Ukraine fall if Europe (in the absence of the US) proves incapable of delivering the aid Ukraine needs to defend itself. It’s hard for me to wrap my head around an isolationist mindset that wants to ignore invasions happening in Europe (go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line, why don’t you?) but I also wonder if these people take the US’s NATO obligations at all seriously, and if they’ve thought more than one move ahead. I’m not demanding you speak for these people, of course.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      > I wonder if the people in question think Europe is even capable of providing the amount of support that’s needed For what it's worth, we aren't. Our militaries, including the French and British, have been severely dismantled post-USSR and what remained was refocused on fighting jihadists in deserts after 9/11 and the followup conflicts. Most people thought that the days of an actual legit tank and artillery battle were long gone. > and if they would like to see Ukraine fall if Europe (in the absence of the US) proves incapable of delivering the aid Ukraine needs to defend itself At least for Americans with such thoughts: some of them see no problem at all for the US in such a scenario. They only care about their perspective, and since there is no way that refugees from that war or Russian war planes and ICBMs end up in Northern America, why should they care, especially when the threat of China is looming?
      - justin66 3y ago
        As for the "why should they care," I think the fact that we're bound by treaty to defend the Baltics and Scandinavian countries in the event of an attack, and they already perceive themselves as threatened, is a pretty obvious reason. But not obvious to everyone. I mean, I don't share the isolationist urge in the case of Ukraine at all, so I'm asking these questions to understand what other people are thinking. I get that a large part of it is just not caring.

justin66 3y ago

Does "everyone" think Ukraine doesn't need the aid to defend itself, or do they want to see them fall?

siftrics 3y ago
The parties more directly at risk (Europe) should bear the brunt of the aid, no?
- justin66 3y ago
  That’s certainly a position one could take. In that context but also in the spirit of the original question, I wonder if the people in question think Europe is even capable of providing the amount of support that’s needed and if they would like to see Ukraine fall if Europe (in the absence of the US) proves incapable of delivering the aid Ukraine needs to defend itself. It’s hard for me to wrap my head around an isolationist mindset that wants to ignore invasions happening in Europe (go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line, why don’t you?) but I also wonder if these people take the US’s NATO obligations at all seriously, and if they’ve thought more than one move ahead. I’m not demanding you speak for these people, of course.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > I wonder if the people in question think Europe is even capable of providing the amount of support that’s needed For what it's worth, we aren't. Our militaries, including the French and British, have been severely dismantled post-USSR and what remained was refocused on fighting jihadists in deserts after 9/11 and the followup conflicts. Most people thought that the days of an actual legit tank and artillery battle were long gone. > and if they would like to see Ukraine fall if Europe (in the absence of the US) proves incapable of delivering the aid Ukraine needs to defend itself At least for Americans with such thoughts: some of them see no problem at all for the US in such a scenario. They only care about their perspective, and since there is no way that refugees from that war or Russian war planes and ICBMs end up in Northern America, why should they care, especially when the threat of China is looming?
    - justin66 3y ago
      As for the "why should they care," I think the fact that we're bound by treaty to defend the Baltics and Scandinavian countries in the event of an attack, and they already perceive themselves as threatened, is a pretty obvious reason. But not obvious to everyone. I mean, I don't share the isolationist urge in the case of Ukraine at all, so I'm asking these questions to understand what other people are thinking. I get that a large part of it is just not caring.