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One theory is that it allows the Russian company that was supposed to deliver gas to Europe to get out of paying fines for not delivering enough gas - they'd bl

One theory is that it allows the Russian company that was supposed to deliver gas to Europe to get out of paying fines for not delivering enough gas - they'd blame it on force majeure. They were intentionally limiting gas deliveries to pressure Europe out of helping Ukraine, and this was a way to blame it on someone else.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> it allows the Russian company that was supposed to deliver gas to Europe to get out of paying fines for not delivering enough gas I think the evidence favors either Russia or Ukraine having destroyed the pipeline. But this isn't a great reason. Russia straight up stole the airplanes its domestic airlines leased. It could simply refuse to pay the fines, too.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > Russia straight up stole the airplanes its domestic airlines leased. It could simply refuse to pay the fines, too. Well, the planes already were in Russia, foreign lenders can't seize them. But fines for non-delivery can still be taken in by seizing assets of the Russian companies in Western countries. Our legal systems unfortunately don't allow wholesale seizure of everything Russia, so it needs an actual contract violation for a seizure order to be upheld.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > the planes already were in Russia, foreign lenders can't seize them. But fines for non-delivery can still be taken in by seizing assets of the Russian companies in Western countries. You can do the same thing to compensate the owners of the planes.
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      No. You can't go and seize a random oligarch's assets to compensate the lenders of airplanes, and Aeroflot takes great care to avoid airspace where Western sanctions could hit them - the exception being Turkey, but they won't do anything that endangers their sort-of "neutrality".
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > can't go and seize a random oligarch's assets to compensate the lenders of airplanes You said "assets of the Russian companies." I'd curtail that to assets of the Russian state. Aeroflot is state owned. (It's why Aeroflot settled [1].) [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/aircraft-lessor-aercap-settles-russia-aeroflot-claim-645-million-2023-09-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/aircraft-...

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> it allows the Russian company that was supposed to deliver gas to Europe to get out of paying fines for not delivering enough gas I think the evidence favors either Russia or Ukraine having destroyed the pipeline. But this isn't a great reason. Russia straight up stole the airplanes its domestic airlines leased. It could simply refuse to pay the fines, too.

mschuster91 3y ago
> Russia straight up stole the airplanes its domestic airlines leased. It could simply refuse to pay the fines, too. Well, the planes already were in Russia, foreign lenders can't seize them. But fines for non-delivery can still be taken in by seizing assets of the Russian companies in Western countries. Our legal systems unfortunately don't allow wholesale seizure of everything Russia, so it needs an actual contract violation for a seizure order to be upheld.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > the planes already were in Russia, foreign lenders can't seize them. But fines for non-delivery can still be taken in by seizing assets of the Russian companies in Western countries. You can do the same thing to compensate the owners of the planes.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    No. You can't go and seize a random oligarch's assets to compensate the lenders of airplanes, and Aeroflot takes great care to avoid airspace where Western sanctions could hit them - the exception being Turkey, but they won't do anything that endangers their sort-of "neutrality".
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > can't go and seize a random oligarch's assets to compensate the lenders of airplanes You said "assets of the Russian companies." I'd curtail that to assets of the Russian state. Aeroflot is state owned. (It's why Aeroflot settled [1].) [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/aircraft-lessor-aercap-settles-russia-aeroflot-claim-645-million-2023-09-06/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/aircraft-...