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Its a EU thing that is pushed from the commission to the individual countries. Germany implemented this a while ago but it was ruled unconstitutional by our con
by derda 15y ago
Its a EU thing that is pushed from the commission to the individual countries. Germany implemented this a while ago but it was ruled unconstitutional by our constitutional court, so the law was repealed and all collected data was deleted (at least thats what they say). Now the government is facing fines from the EU for not implementing the law.
Its awful that an institution of questionable democratic legitimation (EU commission) is forcing a democratic government to implement laws, that are against their constitution. The worst thing is, that the big political parties dont see anything wrong in this.
- blue1 15y agothere is a deep tug-of-war in this. The EU position is that European Law is higher level than any law of member states, including their constitutions. States, generally, say that EU law takes its very legitimation from the souce of national law and, consequently, cannot overrule it.
- philwelch 15y agoWe had this kind of conflict here in the US once. It didn't end well.
- spindritf 15y agoI wouldn't worry about that, here in Europe we have a long tradition and history of solving our problems in a conciliatory and, above all else, peaceful way.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- Nitramp 15y agoWhich of the world wars do you mean?
- toyg 15y agoWas that ironic? Our "long tradition" is stretching for a whopping 65 years, not exactly like the century-plus example our American friends can vaunt.
- CWuestefeld 15y agoIts awful that an institution of questionable democratic legitimation (EU commission) is forcing a democratic government to implement laws, that are against their constitution. You used the word "democratic" twice. But I don't see what democracy has to do with it. The whole point of a democracy is to allow the majority to bully the minority. The protections you need are Constitutional limitations.
- alextgordon 15y agoThe Commission is undemocratic because it holds great power, yet its members are unelected. Contrast with the EU Parliament, which is elected and therefore far more accountable to the electorate.
- tarkin2 15y agoThe Commission's staff are chosen and approved by both the indirectly elected Council (Member State government ministers) and the directly elected European Parliament[1]. The Parliament has forced the dissolution of the Commission before. http://ec.europa.eu/atwork/basicfacts/index_en.htm#chooses http://ec.europa.eu/atwork/basicfacts/index_en.htm#chooses
- fauigerzigerk 15y agoBy that standard most governments are undemocratic. The UK is a particularly interesting case with a monarch that can dissolve parliament, appoint the prime minister, as well as hereditary and life peers in the upper house.
- archangel_one 15y agoThe key difference here is that while that is theoretically the case, the Queen does not in practice arbitrarily dissolve parliament, and her appointing the prime minister is basically a formality. The House of Lords, while it is fairly undemocratic, doesn't seem to be doing any worse a job of looking out for the rest of us than the Commons are. Contrast this to the various EU directives which frequently are interfering in local affairs, often not in a way that's in our best interests.
- tarkin2 15y agoWhat EU directive is this? Please link or state the directive before claiming such.
- derda 15y agoThere you go: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32006L0024:EN:NOT http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive Also check the german wikipedia article, for more references.
- Angostura 15y agoYou'll notice substantial differences between the EC document and the UK version. The EU says: Article 4 Access to data Member States shall adopt measures to ensure that data retained in accordance with this Directive are provided only to the competent national authorities in specific cases and in accordance with national law. The procedures to be followed and the conditions to be fulfilled in order to gain access to retained data in accordance with necessity and proportionality requirements shall be defined by each Member State in its national law, subject to the relevant provisions of European Union law or public international law, and in particular the ECHR as interpreted by the European Court of Human Rights. That would leave the UK quite within its rights to require a court order or warrant before access was granted. But Oh no. The EU Directive makes no mention of logging Web URLs either.
- Angostura 15y ago"Its a EU thing that is pushed from the commission to the individual countries." Citation please. As far as I know, it isn't.