13 ms·

Building an app to learn languages with short stories

65 points by fersarr 3y ago

Hi HN! I wrote a post about the things I have been working on for Webbu, an app to learn languages via short stories. Initially, a few HN readers tried the app, so I wanted to share some more details of what I'm doing and would love to hear any feedback you have.

torquan 3y ago
Not a fan of using an AI voice for language learned. The melody and rhythm is off. If you're learning a language, hearing native speakers is important.
dsizzle 3y ago
The title has a typo: "l earn" vs "learn"
Two9A 3y ago
Quick note: your article links to webbu.app but the link text is "webu.app"; that was awfully confusing. Might be worth a pass through to proof-read; I saw another couple of typos, but the page is now throwing a Wordpress database error, so that might be more urgent to look at.
- fersarr 3y ago
  Thank you! I just updated the typo, sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the eagle eyes.The DB issue was just wordpress not being able to handle the traffic. It's back now!
wintorez 3y ago
Thank you, I was looking for something like this for my Spanish
- fersarr 3y ago
  Ah great, I added Spanish a few weeks ago: https://webbu.app/spanish https://webbu.app/spanish. Hope you like it!
zeta0134 3y ago
I'd be happy to pay for such a service if the stories were written by a human, but once I learned the stories are AI generated, I bounced. Even if they're edited by a native speaker, something about that feels off. I want to learn from other humans, not from a language model.
- ronyeh 3y ago
  "learn from other humans." "learn from an LLM who learned from other humans" I feel like ChatGPT plus voice input (speech to text) plus voice output at different playback speeds (text to speech) would be a fine way to learn some English. Maybe it shouldn't be the only method one uses, but I think it is a useful method. So why not for other languages? I'd love to use a Japanese LLM with voice capability. It could even write stories for me that I could read and listen to.
- bavarianbob 3y ago
  I feel similar, have any thoughts on what it would take for you to learn from a language model? I think for me, it's some sort of review from a native speaker. If they gave a stamp of approval, I wouldn't think twice about learning from a human versus model.
  - bavarianbob 3y ago
    I just read the article and OP actually does get it checked by a native speaker. You still have concerns despite that additional step?
  - zeta0134 3y ago
    I don't think there's any claim you could make about the language model, factual or otherwise, that would resolve my primary hangup. As a non-native learner of a new language, I do not have a trained bullshit detector for that language. I cannot, by virtue of still being a novice, determine if the sentence structure sounds "weird," and I certainly can't determine if that weirdness is a limitation of the language model, some hallucination, whatever. So, by learning from that model, I would pick up any mistakes it makes and fold those into my own speech patterns. If I'm going to pick up speech patterns at all, I would really rather pick them up from a native speaker of the language, since at the very least I'll make the sorts of mistakes that a human might make. I want to sound like human, not like a language model. Language models sound like the average of several humans at best, and a strange program trying to imitate human speech at worst. Once I'm fluent in a language, enough to recognize when the language model itself is probably making a mistake, then I might become comfortable using it. But not as my first introduction to the nuances of the language, when I'm still building my own internal representation up from scratch. After all, my goal is to converse with other human speakers. Shouldn't that be my personal training corpus? I'm a neural network too, and I don't want to feed myself bad data.
greybox 3y ago
I'm learning Japanese and something like this would be beneficial. > You should be able to tap on a word and get a translation. This functionality is available already on Kindle though :) you have the option of uploading your own dictionaries to it too. That, combined with using https://www.clippings.io/ https://www.clippings.io/ to manage highlighted text, makes the kindle an all round great tool for learning languages from books, or any text really. (you can use calibre to convert into and between most ebook formats) I look forward to seeing where this goes! I imagine the really difficulty will be applying it to more than just German. Especially when you branch outside of indoeuropean languages
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  I built something like this for iOS/macOS, Manabi Reader, specifically for Japanese: https://reader.manabi.io https://reader.manabi.io It has collections of short stories and other RSS-based reading materials for different levels. The reading materials are all written by native speaker humans, not AI-generated. It's also a general purpose web browser and RSS reader. Beyond Kindle capabilities, it also tracks the words, kanji, sentences you read to show you analytics based on that, chart your progress against JLPT levels simply by reading, and uses that data (all in your own iCloud/device storage) to coordinate flashcard review. I recently added early Anki integration. Still working hard on it, bringing more languages soon and cross-plat via SwiftWASM a bit later.
- bavarianbob 3y ago
  I find the feature on Kindle to be awful to use. It's sluggish and I've got to do additional work to import the highlights into clippings where I'll then have to do more work to put it somewhere I can consistently review? ugh. The experience OP and software like LingQ have created makes learning words a joy and it's sustainable.
- emursebrian 3y ago
  NHK Web News Easy is pretty good. I built a simple browser extension that would hide the furigana and then show it when you clicked on it. If you're interested, I could dig that up. Ultimately, I got sick of splicing together different home-grown tools and different web sites that I started to build my own to provide a more integrated learning experience that adapts to how students want to learn. I am working on a Japanese course with a well-known Japanese teacher, and we're hoping to start rolling that out soon. Feel free to DM me if you're interested in that or want to chat about learning Japanese.
poulpy123 3y ago
Interesting, what are the diference with learning with text ? https://learning-with-texts.sourceforge.io/ https://learning-with-texts.sourceforge.io/
bluGill 3y ago
The hard part of this is finding stories you want to read. Looks cool, but The one story i read was maybe 5 minutes. To make progress you need an hour or more per day. Well you can make progress on 5 minutes per day, but 500-1000 hours is what it takes to be useful and so 5 minutes a day just doesn't add up fast enough.
- fersarr 3y ago
  Thanks for the feedback! Hopefully at some point we can add more stories, quickly. I'm also looking into other methods of learning, we should have a few more soon.
  - Shorel 3y ago
    That is true. At first I thought the stories were created on demand. Some of us are compulsive readers once we get used to it, and I'm looking forward to being able to do that in my target language.
modo_ 3y ago
This is really great. Congrats on shipping it! You might find https://www.lingq.com https://www.lingq.com helpful as a source of inspiration. I think it's a fairly similar concept. LingQ's killer feature for me is that as you click on words (or phrases - which I find really helpful btw) to translate them, they are added to your vocabulary list. It will automatically create flashcards for you from this list for SRS. Plus when you're reading a new story, words that are in your vocab list are highlighted yellow and new words are highlighted blue.
- zubairq 3y ago
  Yes, I use Lingq as well and found it the most useful app so far for learning languages out of the dozens that I have tried.
- fersarr 3y ago
  thank you! I will have a look at LingQ, it does look interesting. Some other people also asked me to add the vocabulary list for Webbu too, so that should be coming soon :).
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  I built that feature for Japanese: https://reader.manabi.io https://reader.manabi.io will bring to more languages soon and more platforms beyond iOS/macOS
bavarianbob 3y ago
This is wonderful! I'm building something similar for Italian and I love how you have thought through this problem. Kudos for shipping!
- fersarr 3y ago
  thank you :) good luck with yours!
emursebrian 3y ago
I think this is a great idea! I am also working on an app and we've just added a similar feature. It's illustration heavy picture book with multiple difficulty levels and recordings by native speakers for each line of text. The goal is for students to be able to learn languages while they read. Ideally, without having to translate words - though we do provide a lookup tool. Each line in the story is read by a native speaker, and the reader has the option to record themselves and play it back to check their pronunciation. Our first story "Ari & Chali go to the Market" teaches Thai classifiers and is perfect for someone who has completed Reading Thai Made easy or is just learning how to read. We hope to develop more content like this for Thai, as well as other languages. Reading Thai Made Easy: https://emurse.io/course/TdXFGTB/lessons https://emurse.io/course/TdXFGTB/lessons Ari & Chali go to the Market: https://emurse.io/presentation/BnkcnXB https://emurse.io/presentation/BnkcnXB
iamhackerniceip 3y ago
[flagged]
iamhackerniceip 3y ago
[flagged]
SamBam 3y ago
This sounds great. I could imagine it takes inspiration from (or could take inspiration from) programs like Dreaming Spanish, a series of videos that are ranked at different levels of Spanish. The philosophy behind the programs is that what is most important is the active consumption of another language, like by listening and trying to understand. That actually our intuition that we need to work on generating the foreign language, by speaking or writing it, hasn't necessarily been shown by research. Instead, actively consuming another language at a level at or very slightly above your current level is perhaps the best way to become fluent at that language. In terms of the content that you're creating, I always thought it would be very interesting to have leveled plays written in the target language. I always thought that reading how people actually speak might be more useful than reading prose.
istjohn 3y ago
I can't wait to get access to ChatGPT with voice so I can practice my Spanish. I suspect that the utility of vanilla ChatGPT for language learning will soon obviate the need for any custom apps.
- bavarianbob 3y ago
  I've been thinking about a layer on top of these chat apps that augment the experience for learning in particular. I've found that once you dig into the problem, a key element to solve for is reinforcement. The "provide information" part is easy, now how do you make it stick and how do you continue over an extended period of time?
technotarek 3y ago
As a French language learner, one thing I’d love to see is more interesting ways of practicing a specific area/skill (eg in French that might be the passé composé or l’imparfait). There are tons of lessons on line, but they’re boring and uninteresting. They don’t motivate you like a short story or short film where you get both practice and pleasure. It seems very doable to use LLM technologies to transform a given short story to focus on specific language skills (eg rewrite to utilize mostly a specific tense). I know it’s possible because one of my first play experiments with ChatGPT was to have it write a letter to Santa using only specific tenses. In the end you get to reinforce your comprehension and recognition of specific facets of a language. I wish this was more widely available in language learning offerings Hint, hint Duolingo, please consider allowing me to choose the skill I want to learn at a given time, at least in some way. This might apply more to intermediate and advanced learners.
- technotarek 3y ago
  To elaborate on my Duolingo critique… I find it too linear and strict. I can’t really get it to focus on the skills that I’m struggling with or most want to focus upon at a given time. This is especially true when you’re learning using a combined, multifaceted approach (eg YouTube videos + kindle stories + Duolingo + classroom instruction).
  - bavarianbob 3y ago
    This comment is chefs kiss. Amen. This is what I'm building a solution for.
kebsup 3y ago
Warning: shameless self-promotion I'm currently working on German vocabulary learning app, https://vokabeln.io/ https://vokabeln.io/, which uses LLMs in a similar way. The app allows you to paste text and extracts the vocabulary to learn. The vocabulary is then repeated with spaced repetition, audios are generated and users can generate infinitely more examples. I might have made something that works only for me, as getting users seems to be extremely difficult, but I enjoy it much more than anything else I've tried.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  How popular is German? It's quite difficult to get attention just off flashcards. Anecdotally my flashcard app gets 1/10 the traffic/interest of my "learn by reading native texts" app which integrates with the flashcard app but also lets people use their preference; a lot of people like to avoid using more than one flashcard app and might already have settled on one, but may be open to other learning techniques besides flashcards or that can extend their existing flashcards system/data It's also hard to charge money just for flashcards when there are so many free options and the paid options can be pretty good already
  - kebsup 3y ago
    I think a big issue on my part is marketing and UX improvements. It can do much more than "just flashcards" apps. For example, I use it to learn from youtube videos, by copying the transcript to the app, which then processes the words, and creates flashcards for the words that I don't already know. I'm thinking of integrating youtube transcripts, song lyrics, open books such as Grimms stories directly into it. Should not be that much work. But I needed to release and instead of infinitely adding features to my dev build.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      I see those features but they look like they’re positioned as flashcard app features. Think about uses of those materials beyond them ending up as flashcards. That’s what I’m trying to do with Manabi Reader anyhow, still early
steveridout 3y ago
Nice start! I love the idea of an AI assisted learning experience structured around stories. I make a tool in the same space (readlang.com). I started it before the current LLM wave but I've recently added LLM-generated explanations and several users have been uploading LLM generated texts to read (including me!). I've been considering adding LLM based practice too, similar to what you've done with the comprehension questions, but haven't got around to that yet. Feel free to reach out if you'd like a chat :-)
- fersarr 3y ago
  thank you! I had a look at readlang, very interesting. Definitely let's connect, I'll reach out.
probably_wrong 3y ago
I picked a random story in Spanish [1], which is my native language. First, and maybe up for discussion, "gnocchi" in spanish is written "ñoqui". See [2] for a commercial example or check the story's title. Second, the sentence "Después de aprender a hacer gnocchis con su abuela, Hendrik nunca le gusta los gnocchis de nadie más" is wrong: the part after the comma should read "a Hendrik nunca le gustaron los ñoquis de nadie más". I'm also unhappy with "Siempre dice que faltaba algo" as it makes a funny mix of present and past tenses. Third, I think the last paragraph is incoherent as Hendrik learns the nutmeg trick twice (learns from grandma about nutmeg -> finds other gnocchis lacking -> learns about nutmeg). The well-known LLMs are surprisingly bad in languages that are not English. I'm not sure I would trust them just yet. [1] https://webbu.app/l/spanish/story/los-%C3%B1oquis-de-la-abuela-easy https://webbu.app/l/spanish/story/los-%C3%B1oquis-de-la-abue... [2] https://www.pastasgallo.es/productos/noquis-de-patata-seca/ https://www.pastasgallo.es/productos/noquis-de-patata-seca/
- zapperdulchen 3y ago
  I had a look at two German stories. They felt a little off. But I know from having looked at graded reader for German in the past, they feel a little weird for native speakers because of their simple grammar while obviously not being aimed at children. But I have found a spell checking error, inconsistent use of formal and informal voice and an expression that was not quite right in the context. I wonder about the quality assurance part in the setup. Details are here: https://paste.chapril.org/?01537019b7d59be5#FVNAMqzsWGmtQTpMZPqrGVC7mcGqb6n6QA7cjn13LTxH https://paste.chapril.org/?01537019b7d59be5#FVNAMqzsWGmtQTpM...
- fersarr 3y ago
  Hey! thanks for having a look and for dropping some feedback :) Yea, "gnocchi" is questionable ha but some people do write gnocchi to respect their origin, for example in restaurants. But yeah, fair, probably better to use the real Spanish version. >> "Hendrik nunca le gusta los gnocchis de nadie más" will add the "a" at the begginning! thanks for spotting that. >> "Siempre dice que faltaba algo" This is a common way of saying things, at least in my region. That makes Spanish harder, there are so many "versions". >> "he well-known LLMs are surprisingly bad in languages that are not English" So true.
dang 3y ago
It looks like great stuff but I've taken Show HN out of the title because (1) blog posts can't be Show HNs - please see the rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html; and (2) it had a Show HN a few months ago: Show HN: Learn German with Short Stories - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35713852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35713852 - April 2023 (119 comments)
- leanable 3y ago
  Hi dang, is this account shadow banned? Comments and posts from this account are not showing at all.
- fersarr 3y ago
  Oh I see! sorry dang, athanks for removing it. Noted for the next.

65 points by fersarr 3y ago

torquan 3y ago

Not a fan of using an AI voice for language learned. The melody and rhythm is off. If you're learning a language, hearing native speakers is important.

dsizzle 3y ago

The title has a typo: "l earn" vs "learn"

Two9A 3y ago

Quick note: your article links to webbu.app but the link text is "webu.app"; that was awfully confusing. Might be worth a pass through to proof-read; I saw another couple of typos, but the page is now throwing a Wordpress database error, so that might be more urgent to look at.

fersarr 3y ago
Thank you! I just updated the typo, sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the eagle eyes.The DB issue was just wordpress not being able to handle the traffic. It's back now!

wintorez 3y ago

Thank you, I was looking for something like this for my Spanish

fersarr 3y ago
Ah great, I added Spanish a few weeks ago: https://webbu.app/spanish https://webbu.app/spanish. Hope you like it!

zeta0134 3y ago

I'd be happy to pay for such a service if the stories were written by a human, but once I learned the stories are AI generated, I bounced. Even if they're edited by a native speaker, something about that feels off. I want to learn from other humans, not from a language model.

ronyeh 3y ago
"learn from other humans." "learn from an LLM who learned from other humans" I feel like ChatGPT plus voice input (speech to text) plus voice output at different playback speeds (text to speech) would be a fine way to learn some English. Maybe it shouldn't be the only method one uses, but I think it is a useful method. So why not for other languages? I'd love to use a Japanese LLM with voice capability. It could even write stories for me that I could read and listen to.
bavarianbob 3y ago
I feel similar, have any thoughts on what it would take for you to learn from a language model? I think for me, it's some sort of review from a native speaker. If they gave a stamp of approval, I wouldn't think twice about learning from a human versus model.
- bavarianbob 3y ago
  I just read the article and OP actually does get it checked by a native speaker. You still have concerns despite that additional step?
- zeta0134 3y ago
  I don't think there's any claim you could make about the language model, factual or otherwise, that would resolve my primary hangup. As a non-native learner of a new language, I do not have a trained bullshit detector for that language. I cannot, by virtue of still being a novice, determine if the sentence structure sounds "weird," and I certainly can't determine if that weirdness is a limitation of the language model, some hallucination, whatever. So, by learning from that model, I would pick up any mistakes it makes and fold those into my own speech patterns. If I'm going to pick up speech patterns at all, I would really rather pick them up from a native speaker of the language, since at the very least I'll make the sorts of mistakes that a human might make. I want to sound like human, not like a language model. Language models sound like the average of several humans at best, and a strange program trying to imitate human speech at worst. Once I'm fluent in a language, enough to recognize when the language model itself is probably making a mistake, then I might become comfortable using it. But not as my first introduction to the nuances of the language, when I'm still building my own internal representation up from scratch. After all, my goal is to converse with other human speakers. Shouldn't that be my personal training corpus? I'm a neural network too, and I don't want to feed myself bad data.

greybox 3y ago

I'm learning Japanese and something like this would be beneficial. > You should be able to tap on a word and get a translation. This functionality is available already on Kindle though :) you have the option of uploading your own dictionaries to it too. That, combined with using https://www.clippings.io/ https://www.clippings.io/ to manage highlighted text, makes the kindle an all round great tool for learning languages from books, or any text really. (you can use calibre to convert into and between most ebook formats) I look forward to seeing where this goes! I imagine the really difficulty will be applying it to more than just German. Especially when you branch outside of indoeuropean languages

wahnfrieden 3y ago
I built something like this for iOS/macOS, Manabi Reader, specifically for Japanese: https://reader.manabi.io https://reader.manabi.io It has collections of short stories and other RSS-based reading materials for different levels. The reading materials are all written by native speaker humans, not AI-generated. It's also a general purpose web browser and RSS reader. Beyond Kindle capabilities, it also tracks the words, kanji, sentences you read to show you analytics based on that, chart your progress against JLPT levels simply by reading, and uses that data (all in your own iCloud/device storage) to coordinate flashcard review. I recently added early Anki integration. Still working hard on it, bringing more languages soon and cross-plat via SwiftWASM a bit later.
bavarianbob 3y ago
I find the feature on Kindle to be awful to use. It's sluggish and I've got to do additional work to import the highlights into clippings where I'll then have to do more work to put it somewhere I can consistently review? ugh. The experience OP and software like LingQ have created makes learning words a joy and it's sustainable.
emursebrian 3y ago
NHK Web News Easy is pretty good. I built a simple browser extension that would hide the furigana and then show it when you clicked on it. If you're interested, I could dig that up. Ultimately, I got sick of splicing together different home-grown tools and different web sites that I started to build my own to provide a more integrated learning experience that adapts to how students want to learn. I am working on a Japanese course with a well-known Japanese teacher, and we're hoping to start rolling that out soon. Feel free to DM me if you're interested in that or want to chat about learning Japanese.

poulpy123 3y ago

Interesting, what are the diference with learning with text ? https://learning-with-texts.sourceforge.io/ https://learning-with-texts.sourceforge.io/

bluGill 3y ago

The hard part of this is finding stories you want to read. Looks cool, but The one story i read was maybe 5 minutes. To make progress you need an hour or more per day. Well you can make progress on 5 minutes per day, but 500-1000 hours is what it takes to be useful and so 5 minutes a day just doesn't add up fast enough.

fersarr 3y ago
Thanks for the feedback! Hopefully at some point we can add more stories, quickly. I'm also looking into other methods of learning, we should have a few more soon.
- Shorel 3y ago
  That is true. At first I thought the stories were created on demand. Some of us are compulsive readers once we get used to it, and I'm looking forward to being able to do that in my target language.

modo_ 3y ago

This is really great. Congrats on shipping it! You might find https://www.lingq.com https://www.lingq.com helpful as a source of inspiration. I think it's a fairly similar concept. LingQ's killer feature for me is that as you click on words (or phrases - which I find really helpful btw) to translate them, they are added to your vocabulary list. It will automatically create flashcards for you from this list for SRS. Plus when you're reading a new story, words that are in your vocab list are highlighted yellow and new words are highlighted blue.

zubairq 3y ago
Yes, I use Lingq as well and found it the most useful app so far for learning languages out of the dozens that I have tried.
fersarr 3y ago
thank you! I will have a look at LingQ, it does look interesting. Some other people also asked me to add the vocabulary list for Webbu too, so that should be coming soon :).
wahnfrieden 3y ago
I built that feature for Japanese: https://reader.manabi.io https://reader.manabi.io will bring to more languages soon and more platforms beyond iOS/macOS

bavarianbob 3y ago

This is wonderful! I'm building something similar for Italian and I love how you have thought through this problem. Kudos for shipping!

fersarr 3y ago
thank you :) good luck with yours!

emursebrian 3y ago

I think this is a great idea! I am also working on an app and we've just added a similar feature. It's illustration heavy picture book with multiple difficulty levels and recordings by native speakers for each line of text. The goal is for students to be able to learn languages while they read. Ideally, without having to translate words - though we do provide a lookup tool. Each line in the story is read by a native speaker, and the reader has the option to record themselves and play it back to check their pronunciation. Our first story "Ari & Chali go to the Market" teaches Thai classifiers and is perfect for someone who has completed Reading Thai Made easy or is just learning how to read. We hope to develop more content like this for Thai, as well as other languages. Reading Thai Made Easy: https://emurse.io/course/TdXFGTB/lessons https://emurse.io/course/TdXFGTB/lessons Ari & Chali go to the Market: https://emurse.io/presentation/BnkcnXB https://emurse.io/presentation/BnkcnXB

iamhackerniceip 3y ago

[flagged]

iamhackerniceip 3y ago

[flagged]

SamBam 3y ago

This sounds great. I could imagine it takes inspiration from (or could take inspiration from) programs like Dreaming Spanish, a series of videos that are ranked at different levels of Spanish. The philosophy behind the programs is that what is most important is the active consumption of another language, like by listening and trying to understand. That actually our intuition that we need to work on generating the foreign language, by speaking or writing it, hasn't necessarily been shown by research. Instead, actively consuming another language at a level at or very slightly above your current level is perhaps the best way to become fluent at that language. In terms of the content that you're creating, I always thought it would be very interesting to have leveled plays written in the target language. I always thought that reading how people actually speak might be more useful than reading prose.

istjohn 3y ago

I can't wait to get access to ChatGPT with voice so I can practice my Spanish. I suspect that the utility of vanilla ChatGPT for language learning will soon obviate the need for any custom apps.

bavarianbob 3y ago
I've been thinking about a layer on top of these chat apps that augment the experience for learning in particular. I've found that once you dig into the problem, a key element to solve for is reinforcement. The "provide information" part is easy, now how do you make it stick and how do you continue over an extended period of time?

technotarek 3y ago

As a French language learner, one thing I’d love to see is more interesting ways of practicing a specific area/skill (eg in French that might be the passé composé or l’imparfait). There are tons of lessons on line, but they’re boring and uninteresting. They don’t motivate you like a short story or short film where you get both practice and pleasure. It seems very doable to use LLM technologies to transform a given short story to focus on specific language skills (eg rewrite to utilize mostly a specific tense). I know it’s possible because one of my first play experiments with ChatGPT was to have it write a letter to Santa using only specific tenses. In the end you get to reinforce your comprehension and recognition of specific facets of a language. I wish this was more widely available in language learning offerings Hint, hint Duolingo, please consider allowing me to choose the skill I want to learn at a given time, at least in some way. This might apply more to intermediate and advanced learners.

technotarek 3y ago
To elaborate on my Duolingo critique… I find it too linear and strict. I can’t really get it to focus on the skills that I’m struggling with or most want to focus upon at a given time. This is especially true when you’re learning using a combined, multifaceted approach (eg YouTube videos + kindle stories + Duolingo + classroom instruction).
- bavarianbob 3y ago
  This comment is chefs kiss. Amen. This is what I'm building a solution for.

kebsup 3y ago

Warning: shameless self-promotion I'm currently working on German vocabulary learning app, https://vokabeln.io/ https://vokabeln.io/, which uses LLMs in a similar way. The app allows you to paste text and extracts the vocabulary to learn. The vocabulary is then repeated with spaced repetition, audios are generated and users can generate infinitely more examples. I might have made something that works only for me, as getting users seems to be extremely difficult, but I enjoy it much more than anything else I've tried.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
How popular is German? It's quite difficult to get attention just off flashcards. Anecdotally my flashcard app gets 1/10 the traffic/interest of my "learn by reading native texts" app which integrates with the flashcard app but also lets people use their preference; a lot of people like to avoid using more than one flashcard app and might already have settled on one, but may be open to other learning techniques besides flashcards or that can extend their existing flashcards system/data It's also hard to charge money just for flashcards when there are so many free options and the paid options can be pretty good already
- kebsup 3y ago
  I think a big issue on my part is marketing and UX improvements. It can do much more than "just flashcards" apps. For example, I use it to learn from youtube videos, by copying the transcript to the app, which then processes the words, and creates flashcards for the words that I don't already know. I'm thinking of integrating youtube transcripts, song lyrics, open books such as Grimms stories directly into it. Should not be that much work. But I needed to release and instead of infinitely adding features to my dev build.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    I see those features but they look like they’re positioned as flashcard app features. Think about uses of those materials beyond them ending up as flashcards. That’s what I’m trying to do with Manabi Reader anyhow, still early

steveridout 3y ago

Nice start! I love the idea of an AI assisted learning experience structured around stories. I make a tool in the same space (readlang.com). I started it before the current LLM wave but I've recently added LLM-generated explanations and several users have been uploading LLM generated texts to read (including me!). I've been considering adding LLM based practice too, similar to what you've done with the comprehension questions, but haven't got around to that yet. Feel free to reach out if you'd like a chat :-)

fersarr 3y ago
thank you! I had a look at readlang, very interesting. Definitely let's connect, I'll reach out.

probably_wrong 3y ago

I picked a random story in Spanish [1], which is my native language. First, and maybe up for discussion, "gnocchi" in spanish is written "ñoqui". See [2] for a commercial example or check the story's title. Second, the sentence "Después de aprender a hacer gnocchis con su abuela, Hendrik nunca le gusta los gnocchis de nadie más" is wrong: the part after the comma should read "a Hendrik nunca le gustaron los ñoquis de nadie más". I'm also unhappy with "Siempre dice que faltaba algo" as it makes a funny mix of present and past tenses. Third, I think the last paragraph is incoherent as Hendrik learns the nutmeg trick twice (learns from grandma about nutmeg -> finds other gnocchis lacking -> learns about nutmeg). The well-known LLMs are surprisingly bad in languages that are not English. I'm not sure I would trust them just yet. [1] https://webbu.app/l/spanish/story/los-%C3%B1oquis-de-la-abuela-easy https://webbu.app/l/spanish/story/los-%C3%B1oquis-de-la-abue... [2] https://www.pastasgallo.es/productos/noquis-de-patata-seca/ https://www.pastasgallo.es/productos/noquis-de-patata-seca/

zapperdulchen 3y ago
I had a look at two German stories. They felt a little off. But I know from having looked at graded reader for German in the past, they feel a little weird for native speakers because of their simple grammar while obviously not being aimed at children. But I have found a spell checking error, inconsistent use of formal and informal voice and an expression that was not quite right in the context. I wonder about the quality assurance part in the setup. Details are here: https://paste.chapril.org/?01537019b7d59be5#FVNAMqzsWGmtQTpMZPqrGVC7mcGqb6n6QA7cjn13LTxH https://paste.chapril.org/?01537019b7d59be5#FVNAMqzsWGmtQTpM...
fersarr 3y ago
Hey! thanks for having a look and for dropping some feedback :) Yea, "gnocchi" is questionable ha but some people do write gnocchi to respect their origin, for example in restaurants. But yeah, fair, probably better to use the real Spanish version. >> "Hendrik nunca le gusta los gnocchis de nadie más" will add the "a" at the begginning! thanks for spotting that. >> "Siempre dice que faltaba algo" This is a common way of saying things, at least in my region. That makes Spanish harder, there are so many "versions". >> "he well-known LLMs are surprisingly bad in languages that are not English" So true.

dang 3y ago

It looks like great stuff but I've taken Show HN out of the title because (1) blog posts can't be Show HNs - please see the rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html; and (2) it had a Show HN a few months ago: Show HN: Learn German with Short Stories - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35713852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35713852 - April 2023 (119 comments)

leanable 3y ago
Hi dang, is this account shadow banned? Comments and posts from this account are not showing at all.
fersarr 3y ago
Oh I see! sorry dang, athanks for removing it. Noted for the next.