6 ms·

Amazing how much value is skimmed off knowledge workers. It always puzzles me why more people don't setup their own shop.

upon_drumhead 3y ago
I have zero ability and interest in managing client out reach and lead generation. As an independent shop, I would make close to $0/mo. I love my job as it allows me to solve puzzles and get paid for them. It’s worth letting someone else take a cut to bring me the puzzles so I can focus on puzzle solving.
gumballindie 3y ago
You are getting an awful amount of downvotes for a would be hackers and painters forum. Your statement is true, but crabs would rather you get back in the bucket.
- numbers_guy 3y ago
  Yes, I'm wondering. I thought HN was a startup forum.
  - nextlevelwizard 3y ago
    If only YC members (or hopefuls) frequented these forums this would be a dead place
    - ejlxsh 3y ago
      You don't have to be a YC member, but I'd go so far as saying HN is startup-hostile nowadays. Remember the indie hacker making $45k a month recently getting torn down for his work?
      - gumballindie 3y ago
        Too many fixed mindset types around here, thinking that chasing jira tickets is the type of problem solving that matters or that plumbing apis is puzzle solving. Forum might just as well replace hacker with worker and call it worker news. The only types of problems some want solving is how to increase taxes on those that solve actual problems and how to release yet another ai to leech off of other people's hard work. All while being ordered to return to offices like herds to a barn. Nothing hacky about it frankly.
        nextlevelwizard 3y ago
        Out of curiosity what problems are you solving?
        deconstruct 3y ago
        100%. Mostly wagies crunching through JIRA tickets and earning a comfy enough salary with strong opinions on how business works, having never done anything close to it.
  - hardware2win 3y ago
    HN is not only not a forum - it is a news aggregator, but also not only about startups It is mostly about interesting things with emphasis on tech and business It serves as ad place for jobs in yc startups
  - deconstruct 3y ago
    Most are comfy employees I'd say from the general vibe of the comments.
  - g232089 3y ago
    It's European time currently. So, crabs time.
    - numbers_guy 3y ago
      It's mostly my fellow Germans, being honest.
  - johnny99k 3y ago
    The HN community hasn't been about startups in a looong time.
- refurb 3y ago
  The only way that statement is true is if you believe the entire success of the tech industry is the code. Nothing else. Not the other parts of a functioning business - marketing, client relations, public relation, finance, business strategy, etc. That’s a pretty absurd assumption. And think of it this way. Google revenue is $1.5M per employee. Profit is 24%. That’s $360k of profit per employee (yeah I know costs include employee wages, but bear with me). Seems like ultra-elite-10x coders who make $400k+ are skimming a pretty respectable chunk of the returns, no?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
nextlevelwizard 3y ago
Because the hardest part is finding clients. I could say good buy to my (comparatively) low guaranteed salary to "setup my own shop", but my current employer wouldn't take me as consultant since we have a rule about size of companies we deal with. So I would have to start looking for new client(s) from scratch without any guarantee I will find even one.
- benjaminwootton 3y ago
  I think this is it. Surely almost everyone aspires to do it at some point, but finding and winning the right type of customers is very difficult.
- Justsignedup 3y ago
  And to note, by the time you're well versed enough to set up shot you likely have life obligations that prevent you from living for no income for a few months to kick the tires. And also there's a big difference between doing and making money. Not everyone knows how to sell themselves. I certainly don't.
pavlov 3y ago
Did we read the same Reddit thread? Most of the respondents making good money didn’t seem to be knowledge workers, but ordinary small business owners. I don’t envy anyone running a small HVAC installation company or whatever. The work is boring, the paperwork mindnumbing, the hours often grueling. When one of your three employees gets sick or goes on a drinking binge, you’re the one who has to figure it out. If I had to choose, I’d rather work as a librarian even for 0.1x the salary. But of course we’re very lucky that there are so many interesting and well-paid knowledge jobs today.
deconstruct 3y ago
That's right. Large majority of people on here (and especially reddit CS/programming subreddits) are employees and simply comfy in their corporate job. It's not even that most won't start their own shop (which is perfectly do-able), it's also that they will actively attack even the mere notion of it. And its usually using "isms" like "its hard to get clients", "its risky", "multiple clients mean multiple bosses" and "90% of businesses fail in the first 5 years" and other nonsense. Edit: then the economy takes a turn, mass tech layoffs happen and it makes some people think.

upon_drumhead 3y ago

I have zero ability and interest in managing client out reach and lead generation. As an independent shop, I would make close to $0/mo. I love my job as it allows me to solve puzzles and get paid for them. It’s worth letting someone else take a cut to bring me the puzzles so I can focus on puzzle solving.

gumballindie 3y ago

You are getting an awful amount of downvotes for a would be hackers and painters forum. Your statement is true, but crabs would rather you get back in the bucket.

numbers_guy 3y ago
Yes, I'm wondering. I thought HN was a startup forum.
- nextlevelwizard 3y ago
  If only YC members (or hopefuls) frequented these forums this would be a dead place
  - ejlxsh 3y ago
    You don't have to be a YC member, but I'd go so far as saying HN is startup-hostile nowadays. Remember the indie hacker making $45k a month recently getting torn down for his work?
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      Too many fixed mindset types around here, thinking that chasing jira tickets is the type of problem solving that matters or that plumbing apis is puzzle solving. Forum might just as well replace hacker with worker and call it worker news. The only types of problems some want solving is how to increase taxes on those that solve actual problems and how to release yet another ai to leech off of other people's hard work. All while being ordered to return to offices like herds to a barn. Nothing hacky about it frankly.
      - nextlevelwizard 3y ago
        Out of curiosity what problems are you solving?
      - deconstruct 3y ago
        100%. Mostly wagies crunching through JIRA tickets and earning a comfy enough salary with strong opinions on how business works, having never done anything close to it.
- hardware2win 3y ago
  HN is not only not a forum - it is a news aggregator, but also not only about startups It is mostly about interesting things with emphasis on tech and business It serves as ad place for jobs in yc startups
- deconstruct 3y ago
  Most are comfy employees I'd say from the general vibe of the comments.
- g232089 3y ago
  It's European time currently. So, crabs time.
  - numbers_guy 3y ago
    It's mostly my fellow Germans, being honest.
- johnny99k 3y ago
  The HN community hasn't been about startups in a looong time.
refurb 3y ago
The only way that statement is true is if you believe the entire success of the tech industry is the code. Nothing else. Not the other parts of a functioning business - marketing, client relations, public relation, finance, business strategy, etc. That’s a pretty absurd assumption. And think of it this way. Google revenue is $1.5M per employee. Profit is 24%. That’s $360k of profit per employee (yeah I know costs include employee wages, but bear with me). Seems like ultra-elite-10x coders who make $400k+ are skimming a pretty respectable chunk of the returns, no?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

nextlevelwizard 3y ago

Because the hardest part is finding clients. I could say good buy to my (comparatively) low guaranteed salary to "setup my own shop", but my current employer wouldn't take me as consultant since we have a rule about size of companies we deal with. So I would have to start looking for new client(s) from scratch without any guarantee I will find even one.

benjaminwootton 3y ago
I think this is it. Surely almost everyone aspires to do it at some point, but finding and winning the right type of customers is very difficult.
Justsignedup 3y ago
And to note, by the time you're well versed enough to set up shot you likely have life obligations that prevent you from living for no income for a few months to kick the tires. And also there's a big difference between doing and making money. Not everyone knows how to sell themselves. I certainly don't.

pavlov 3y ago

Did we read the same Reddit thread? Most of the respondents making good money didn’t seem to be knowledge workers, but ordinary small business owners. I don’t envy anyone running a small HVAC installation company or whatever. The work is boring, the paperwork mindnumbing, the hours often grueling. When one of your three employees gets sick or goes on a drinking binge, you’re the one who has to figure it out. If I had to choose, I’d rather work as a librarian even for 0.1x the salary. But of course we’re very lucky that there are so many interesting and well-paid knowledge jobs today.

deconstruct 3y ago

That's right. Large majority of people on here (and especially reddit CS/programming subreddits) are employees and simply comfy in their corporate job. It's not even that most won't start their own shop (which is perfectly do-able), it's also that they will actively attack even the mere notion of it. And its usually using "isms" like "its hard to get clients", "its risky", "multiple clients mean multiple bosses" and "90% of businesses fail in the first 5 years" and other nonsense. Edit: then the economy takes a turn, mass tech layoffs happen and it makes some people think.