7 ms·
Do you make over 20k a month?
- martin_a 3y agoAs with all these threads, don't forget that survivorship bias exists. For everybody in that thread, 100 times the number of people exist that haven't done so well or good at all. Don't feel bad if you're not as successful. There's more to life than making 20k+ a month.
- gumballindie 3y agoWhy is there always someone commenting about survivor’s bias? Should people not even aim for it because many will not make it? Is that the purpose? I find these types of comments super annoying. The crab in a bucket mindset seems strong. Either way 20k a month is peanuts, and definitely doable. We need more stories about how rather than stories of why you cant.
- iteria 3y agoPeople mention survivorship bias because 20K/mo isn't doable in some situations. 20k/ is 240K/yr. That isn't peanuts in the vast majority of the US. I'm a programmer and I make multiples of whole families in my area and I can't see making 240K/yr without extreme amounts of stress and deciding to dedicate my life to work (which I won't do), for my tradesmen family members, I have no idea how they'd do it without running a business with several employees which everyone can't do. If you live outside of the super high cost of living places in the US, anyone you see making 240K definitely had some luck involved. It's right to call that out so that when people fail they know that it wasn't that they sucked, but that the stars didn't align for them in this situation. The odds are probably better than playing the lotto, but depending on your life situation, the chances might not be much better.
- gumballindie 3y agoThere really is nothing intellectually stimulating in learning that there is misery out there and that you too can fail. A cat can tell you that there's misery out there. What's interesting is knowing how to build things and get out of said misery. If you surround yourself with stories about losers you'll think that there are only losers out there and you'll get stuck. This is a forum about hackers and hacking a way out is far more interesting than constant posting about "survivorship bias". I want to learn stories about how people, small or large, build things that matter - not just plumb APIs and "hack" a new language. Those are cool too but those aren't the only "problems" that need solving. And indeed there are forums dedicated to that but I want to hear is the more "scientific" side of making commercially successful things, and like me there are plenty - but some have been alienated by this boring mindsent.
- penjelly 3y agoparent mentioned survivorbias as a precaution for those who think its their destiny to make 20k/month after reading the OP. > This is a forum about hackers and hacking a way out yes, and as such you'll run into the folks with opinions on either side of the discussion, how is that not more intellectually stimulating than the alternative?
- laserlight 3y ago> Why is there always someone commenting about survivor’s bias? To educate and remind people of survivorship bias, so as to prevent this: https://xkcd.com/1827/ https://xkcd.com/1827/
- checkyoursudo 3y agoI have made around 25k/month (gross) and 0/month (or even negative, if you count having to use savings to live). The reality for me has been that the amount of stress that comes with making 25k is not entirely dissimilar to the amount of stress that comes from making 0, albeit from different causes. I am much happier where I currently am, somewhere in the middle. I make about average for where I live, and that is perfectly fine with me.
- methuselah_in 3y agothese days people are more happy in getting less at and spend more time at home doing nothing of doing nothing or going out.
- herbst 3y agoI make more than I need and way less than I could. Nothing is more valuable than waking up and doing exactly what I want to do that day. Everyday. No idea why so many people always aim for more money instead of more freedom
- nullindividual 3y agoFreedom requires security, which requires money.
- herbst 3y agoBut once you have enough, why aim for more?
- howrar 3y agoYou never reach 100% freedom and security. You only approach it asymptotically as you gain more money. So maybe for some, their threshold for "enough" is higher than you think. Maybe for someone else, they just haven't figured out what to do with the freedom yet, so they keep going and moving marginally closer to that 100% so they can better enjoy it when they do know what to do with it.
- noobermin 3y agoI don't feel bad because of some silly concept like "self-worth." More money means I wouldn't have to feel squeezed when the pharmacy sends me the bill at the end of the month. Money means freedom, and only after some point does it become a penis measuring contest.
- rjh29 3y agoObligatory comment that countries exist where the "pharmacy bill" is either $0 or sufficiently low that it will never cause stress. For people living in those countries, health costs are no longer an incentive to earn a lot. In the UK in fact, the pharmacy is free for people on low incomes but roughly £120/year for everyone else. The same applies to the dentist.
- hcks 3y agoThese mandatory lectures on survivorship biais are annoying, especially when we’re not talking about Elon Musk levels of insane success. 20k a month is… what make an average senior SWE in the USA? It’s ridiculous to think you’d have only 1% chance of making it to that level of revenue.
- heartbreak 3y agoBefore I read the linked thread I thought this whole post was about salaries. I don’t know about average SWE in the USA, but it’s certainly common in some markets. You can be rank-and-file in software, law, and medicine and exceed $20k/mo after taxes. Makes the risk in entrepreneurship not worth it for me.
- ryandrake 3y ago> You can be rank-and-file in software, law, and medicine and exceed $20k/mo after taxes. I mean, you "can" do a lot of things. That doesn't mean it's common. You "can" hit a hole in one, be struck by lightning or win the lottery, after all. Someone on HN knows someone who's brother's uncle's girlfriend's roommate's cousin makes $750K/yr as a L7 superstar at Google in Silicon Valley, therefore "You can make $750K as a SWE" is technically a true statement. This true statement somehow evolves into "SWEs commonly make $750K, look at levels.fyi" which further evolves into "SWEs on average make $750K." Neither of which are true.
- tomohelix 3y agoWhere do you live that a rank and file would make something like 350K a year? Because that is the minimum required to have 20K a month *after* taxes.
- heartbreak 3y agoFor a SWE? Remotely anywhere, but otherwise major markets. Same with biglaw. Medicine is its own beast.
- deleted 3y ago
- Zetobal 3y agoI would totally attend every meeting if I was salaried and at 20k.
- HPsquared 3y agoThe counterargument is that a super-important 20k-a-month person may not want to waste their important time on unnecessary meetings. More is lost by wasting that person's time.
- bilekas 3y agoFrom experience, some of those 20k+ a month are usually the culprits for scheduling an outrageous number of meetings. God forbid someone is working on something without "following up" or heaven forbit they couldn't get to establish what to do "moving forward".
- JimDabell 3y agoIt’s a question about business revenue, not your individual salary.
- iamflimflam1 3y agoI've worked on contracts where that is not an unusual amount, my colleagues and I behaved no differently from working on normal pay.
- pettycashstash2 3y agoThe bottom line is that while attending every meeting may sound ideal, it's often not feasible or even necessary for employees at certain experience and salary levels. There can be good reasons for missing meetings that have nothing to do with motivation.
- willis936 3y agoLike attending one of the other meetings that are triple booked in that time slot. I definitely don't make 20k/month.
- mnky9800n 3y agoit seems like these split into at least two groups. The ones that have a sustainable business (e.g., trailer repair), and the ones that this month are making >20k a month but next month who knows (indie board game start up). it leads me to believe that the question itself is not as informative as it may seem upon first inspection.
- HPsquared 3y agoI guess you could ask something like "How much would a bank be willing to lend you?"
- pzo 3y agoThis is also not a good question. I had a friend who is freelancer making very good money but was hard for him to even get credit card comparing to someone who has medium salary but has permanent job. Another friend had hard time getting mortgage credit even though has enough money already in the bank to buy apartment in cash - reason? He earns in dollars but in his country bank requires earning in local currency to get credit.
- arethuza 3y ago"How much would a bank be willing to lend you?" Depending on how the economy is doing and how crazy your bank is that could be a truly awful measure.
- numbers_guy 3y agoAmazing how much value is skimmed off knowledge workers. It always puzzles me why more people don't setup their own shop.
- upon_drumhead 3y agoI have zero ability and interest in managing client out reach and lead generation. As an independent shop, I would make close to $0/mo. I love my job as it allows me to solve puzzles and get paid for them. It’s worth letting someone else take a cut to bring me the puzzles so I can focus on puzzle solving.
- gumballindie 3y agoYou are getting an awful amount of downvotes for a would be hackers and painters forum. Your statement is true, but crabs would rather you get back in the bucket.
- numbers_guy 3y agoYes, I'm wondering. I thought HN was a startup forum.
- nextlevelwizard 3y agoIf only YC members (or hopefuls) frequented these forums this would be a dead place
- ejlxsh 3y agoYou don't have to be a YC member, but I'd go so far as saying HN is startup-hostile nowadays. Remember the indie hacker making $45k a month recently getting torn down for his work?
- gumballindie 3y agoToo many fixed mindset types around here, thinking that chasing jira tickets is the type of problem solving that matters or that plumbing apis is puzzle solving. Forum might just as well replace hacker with worker and call it worker news. The only types of problems some want solving is how to increase taxes on those that solve actual problems and how to release yet another ai to leech off of other people's hard work. All while being ordered to return to offices like herds to a barn. Nothing hacky about it frankly.
- dpig_ 3y agoI make one zantillion dollars selling people an audiobook of engine sounds.
- tomashubelbauer 3y agoAre you this guy? https://www.youtube.com/@angethegreat https://www.youtube.com/@angethegreat
- refurb 3y agoThe question is $20k per month in revenue. Not profit. You could be running a business that is $20k in revenue and $18k in costs, profit is $2k
- sgt 3y ago$15k of that could be salaries or your salary.
- addandsubtract 3y ago$2m profit on a $20k business? Nice.
- petargyurov 3y agoCan't decide if this is inspiring or depressing. Are software/tech consultants paid solely for their opinion or do they actually implement things, write code, etc? I can't imagine getting paid as much as the commentors reported for simply giving advice...
- Detrytus 3y agoWriting the code becomes relatively straightforward once you have decided what code to write. Consultant's opinions helps you go into the right direction and not waste your time on writing the wrong code. Which makes the opinion the force multiplier for the whole team.
- 5350-uiop-1130 3y agoit's reddit. at best they're embellishing the truth, at worst they're just fantasies. if someone is paying 100k p/m for consulting, they're not just paying for consulting they're paying specifically for you. that's the hard bit.
- deconstruct 3y agoLargely, "consultants" in the software/tech are implementing things. Pure consultants, if they are specialized, can make more than that - and that's because of the value they bring.
- petargyurov 3y agoJust seen your personal website. Out of curiosity, from which avenue (LinkedIn, your site, word of mouth, etc) do you receive the most contracts/engagement?
- deconstruct 3y agoI'm happy to answer. Its word of mouth and referrals.
- gaws 3y agoYou might have to pay him for that secret.
- nl 3y agoThis is a strange thread. It's one thing making 20k/month as an individual, but many of these stories are consulting companies making some amount per month, but with lots of employees. Does that surprise anyone at all?
- j2bax 3y agoIt’s in the Entrepreneur subreddit so I think the assumption is a lot of these people have employees. Not sure what’s magical about the number 20k though.
- nikanj 3y ago$20k/mo in salary is huge, $20k/mo in revenue is a very small business. This thread seems to happily mix the two
- GoodJokes 3y ago[dead]
- t483v3 3y agoI worked at a bank. One of the programming consultants was getting 100k per month. He had figured out how to get some FX trading advantages for the bank. IT staff were furious. I was impressed. If a trader or lawyer can make this why not a programmer?
- jacquesm 3y agoFurious that he got that much or furious that they got less?