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>Mandated USB-C disincentives ever improving on the connector. Please stop repeating that argument, it's not true. There's periodic review proces built in into

>Mandated USB-C disincentives ever improving on the connector. Please stop repeating that argument, it's not true. There's periodic review proces built in into this legislation. >attempted to enforce a similar mandate for micro-USB back in the day - can you imagine if they succeeded? That would be great. Probably Apple would transition to the USB-C a few years ago with everyone instead current nonsense.

scarface_74 3y ago
Yes just imagine how long that’s going to take…
- dzikimarian 3y ago
  Again commonly repeated FUD. Lightning originated when there was a talk about mandating micro-USB and finally died, after 11 years, when USB-C was mandated. If not for that legislation it would still be alive. It's actually faster that way.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    I keep forgetting how dynamic the EU tech industry is and the great companies that have come out of it because of the wisdom of European legislation.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Not remotely the same for micro usb. It wasn't the same law. Now it will be a chicken and egg problem. No one will want to put a new connector in phones, because they'd need usb c too anyways. So no new standard will emerge with wide enough industry support. If the micro usb "mandate" was as binding and restrictive as this one, we would not have had usb c.
    - dzikimarian 3y ago
      For now I see that Apple took USB-C and used it implement 23 years old protocol in it's mid-range device. I think I'll give EU a chance before I will agree that they created bottle neck by this legislation.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        The iPhone Pro is a midrange device? The EU just mandated a charging standard. It didn’t mandate that Apple go whole hog implementing the USB 3.1 protocol including video over USB C - all things that the typical Android phone doesn’t do.
        dzikimarian 3y ago
        Regular iPhone is midrange - it has USB 2.0, and yet it just started to be sold. Apparently 23 years old solution is still ok for lots of the people. When do you think mobile devices will be limited by USB-C? Another 20 years? Is it worth for you to allow mess, vendor locks and ripping of customers for another quarter of century, because some magic connector that solves problem we don't know exists can be delayed by 2-3 years? Really? Anti-competitive practices from corporations delay progress way more than that.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        And yet, the price of a goopd USB C cable from Amazon is no less expensive than a 3rd party Lightning cable.
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      > No one will want to put a new connector in phones, because they'd need usb c too anyways. This is why the USB Implimentation Forum exists. If you want to put a new connector in phones, do it; just do it through the proper, standardized and official channels. If every manufacturer had their own competing charging standard, we would be back to square 1 with 15 different ways to route serial data and 15w of juice. As companies like Apple have so gratefully demonstrated, most companies tend to invent those chargers for licensing royalties rather than a willingness to push the envelope on charging or data transfer technology.
      - xvector 3y ago
        The problem is that nobody will be willing to invest in the research and development needed to do so. It's a chicken and an egg problem.
        smoldesu 3y ago
        Good. I don't want a company to create and monopolize some arbitrary improvement over the current technology. I want those developments to be forced into standardization to compete, and offer backwards-compatibility just like USB does. And plus... it's a serial cable. The demand for "research and development" has remained the same since they figured out how to flatten the type B connector. You can't fool anybody by releasing a 'new and improved' cable or connector that is just the same serial bus with proprietary mumbo-jumbo on top.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        > Good. I don't want a company to create and monopolize some arbitrary improvement over the current technology. And this sums up the issue perfectly. “I don’t want improvements. I want design by committee least common denominator”
        smoldesu 3y ago
        When it comes to charging and serial standards which have not meaningfully evolved in over a decade... yeah. It would be kinda nice to trade marginal improvement for compatibility and stability. The USB-C connector is not limiting smartphone data or charging speeds anyways.
ssbash 3y ago
USB C was created due to Apple donating the reversible connector technology they created for lightning. If micro usb was enforced, USB C in its current form wouldn’t exist.
Aerroon 3y ago
I guess power cords and power plugs landed on perfect designs. It's weird how there are so many different "perfect" power plugs though. A periodic review process won't matter. Somebody has to actually research, design and create an alternative. Why would they spend resources on that if their competitors can just decide that they're not allowed to use it?

scarface_74 3y ago

Yes just imagine how long that’s going to take…

dzikimarian 3y ago
Again commonly repeated FUD. Lightning originated when there was a talk about mandating micro-USB and finally died, after 11 years, when USB-C was mandated. If not for that legislation it would still be alive. It's actually faster that way.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  I keep forgetting how dynamic the EU tech industry is and the great companies that have come out of it because of the wisdom of European legislation.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  Not remotely the same for micro usb. It wasn't the same law. Now it will be a chicken and egg problem. No one will want to put a new connector in phones, because they'd need usb c too anyways. So no new standard will emerge with wide enough industry support. If the micro usb "mandate" was as binding and restrictive as this one, we would not have had usb c.
  - dzikimarian 3y ago
    For now I see that Apple took USB-C and used it implement 23 years old protocol in it's mid-range device. I think I'll give EU a chance before I will agree that they created bottle neck by this legislation.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      The iPhone Pro is a midrange device? The EU just mandated a charging standard. It didn’t mandate that Apple go whole hog implementing the USB 3.1 protocol including video over USB C - all things that the typical Android phone doesn’t do.
      - dzikimarian 3y ago
        Regular iPhone is midrange - it has USB 2.0, and yet it just started to be sold. Apparently 23 years old solution is still ok for lots of the people. When do you think mobile devices will be limited by USB-C? Another 20 years? Is it worth for you to allow mess, vendor locks and ripping of customers for another quarter of century, because some magic connector that solves problem we don't know exists can be delayed by 2-3 years? Really? Anti-competitive practices from corporations delay progress way more than that.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        And yet, the price of a goopd USB C cable from Amazon is no less expensive than a 3rd party Lightning cable.
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    > No one will want to put a new connector in phones, because they'd need usb c too anyways. This is why the USB Implimentation Forum exists. If you want to put a new connector in phones, do it; just do it through the proper, standardized and official channels. If every manufacturer had their own competing charging standard, we would be back to square 1 with 15 different ways to route serial data and 15w of juice. As companies like Apple have so gratefully demonstrated, most companies tend to invent those chargers for licensing royalties rather than a willingness to push the envelope on charging or data transfer technology.
    - xvector 3y ago
      The problem is that nobody will be willing to invest in the research and development needed to do so. It's a chicken and an egg problem.
      - smoldesu 3y ago
        Good. I don't want a company to create and monopolize some arbitrary improvement over the current technology. I want those developments to be forced into standardization to compete, and offer backwards-compatibility just like USB does. And plus... it's a serial cable. The demand for "research and development" has remained the same since they figured out how to flatten the type B connector. You can't fool anybody by releasing a 'new and improved' cable or connector that is just the same serial bus with proprietary mumbo-jumbo on top.
        scarface_74 3y ago
        > Good. I don't want a company to create and monopolize some arbitrary improvement over the current technology. And this sums up the issue perfectly. “I don’t want improvements. I want design by committee least common denominator”
        smoldesu 3y ago
        When it comes to charging and serial standards which have not meaningfully evolved in over a decade... yeah. It would be kinda nice to trade marginal improvement for compatibility and stability. The USB-C connector is not limiting smartphone data or charging speeds anyways.

ssbash 3y ago

USB C was created due to Apple donating the reversible connector technology they created for lightning. If micro usb was enforced, USB C in its current form wouldn’t exist.

Aerroon 3y ago

I guess power cords and power plugs landed on perfect designs. It's weird how there are so many different "perfect" power plugs though. A periodic review process won't matter. Somebody has to actually research, design and create an alternative. Why would they spend resources on that if their competitors can just decide that they're not allowed to use it?