4 ms·

I believe in the context of his statement: "... it's about showing respect for the guys you're meeting, showing that you want to be taken seriously, that you c

I believe in the context of his statement: "... it's about showing respect for the guys you're meeting, showing that you want to be taken seriously, that you care, and that you take the meeting seriously..." I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but those qualify as things that may make you a better person (in said situation) as you are showing respect for the other individual.

gruseom 15y ago
Quite the contrary. It shows disrespect to assume that they would judge you based on dress rather than merit.
- prodigal_erik 15y ago
  This. I've never understood why people aren't offended by obvious attempts to manipulate them using something as shallow as a costume. It's a dead giveaway that I'm expecting to meet at least one person I haven't begun taking seriously. (Which is not to say I'm above doing that to people who I believe will expect it.)
chrischen 15y ago
You can show respect by taking people seriously, being on time, putting in effort, and countless other objectively practical things. Wearing a suit is only considered by some to be respectful because of cultural conditioning. Unfortunately cultural norms are not objective. I am 21. I have never worn a suit before and it's not because I actively choose not to or oppose it. I simply have never come to a situation where I was told why I needed to wear a suit. Therefore I have never been conditioned to do so as the norm. But I can understand that if I do not show up on time, if I ignore or talk over others that these are objectively disrespectful actions because they negatively affect others. If anyone is still stuck in the thinking that dressing up in a suit (which has no practical consequences to any matters on hand) then they are completely missing the point. I'll show my fucking respect by doing my best, not being a dick, taking people seriously, and if people refuse to recognize that true respect simply because I didn't dress up nicely to conform to their cultural standards then it's their loss.
- DanBC 15y ago
  > Unfortunately cultural norms are not objective. Unfortunately cultural norms are very strong. > then it's their loss. Sure, it is their loss. But if they're giving you a job, or giving you money, then you're losing out too. And there are a lot of social routines where certain costumes are expected - funerals, weddings, etc. Good luck, because the clothes thing is infuriating. Just remember that a lot of people are stupid.
  - gruseom 15y ago
    Keeping your integrity is a gain, not a loss. There are other ways to find jobs and money.
    - DanBC 15y ago
      It's fun to play thought experiments. Imagine you didn't want to work on weapons, but those employers had casual dress policy, versus the socially aware company which needs you to wear a suit. Which bit of integrity would you abandon?
      - chrischen 15y ago
        Er.. if you wanted to keep your integrity you could work at neither. Your hypothetical situation is contrived. Plus you can always start your own company. There are very few situations where your only option to keep your integrity boiled down to death and even then people have chosen death over giving up their integrity.
      - gruseom 15y ago
        Not for me - I hate that desert island moral dilemma thing. Inevitably, what is really being asked is "What would a person in a contrived puzzle situation say"?
  - chrischen 15y ago
    > Unfortunately cultural norms are very strong. Racism was once the norm in the US. And yes it was deeply ingrained in society but it only came down because people started opposing it.

gruseom 15y ago

Quite the contrary. It shows disrespect to assume that they would judge you based on dress rather than merit.

prodigal_erik 15y ago
This. I've never understood why people aren't offended by obvious attempts to manipulate them using something as shallow as a costume. It's a dead giveaway that I'm expecting to meet at least one person I haven't begun taking seriously. (Which is not to say I'm above doing that to people who I believe will expect it.)

chrischen 15y ago

You can show respect by taking people seriously, being on time, putting in effort, and countless other objectively practical things. Wearing a suit is only considered by some to be respectful because of cultural conditioning. Unfortunately cultural norms are not objective. I am 21. I have never worn a suit before and it's not because I actively choose not to or oppose it. I simply have never come to a situation where I was told why I needed to wear a suit. Therefore I have never been conditioned to do so as the norm. But I can understand that if I do not show up on time, if I ignore or talk over others that these are objectively disrespectful actions because they negatively affect others. If anyone is still stuck in the thinking that dressing up in a suit (which has no practical consequences to any matters on hand) then they are completely missing the point. I'll show my fucking respect by doing my best, not being a dick, taking people seriously, and if people refuse to recognize that true respect simply because I didn't dress up nicely to conform to their cultural standards then it's their loss.

DanBC 15y ago
> Unfortunately cultural norms are not objective. Unfortunately cultural norms are very strong. > then it's their loss. Sure, it is their loss. But if they're giving you a job, or giving you money, then you're losing out too. And there are a lot of social routines where certain costumes are expected - funerals, weddings, etc. Good luck, because the clothes thing is infuriating. Just remember that a lot of people are stupid.
- gruseom 15y ago
  Keeping your integrity is a gain, not a loss. There are other ways to find jobs and money.
  - DanBC 15y ago
    It's fun to play thought experiments. Imagine you didn't want to work on weapons, but those employers had casual dress policy, versus the socially aware company which needs you to wear a suit. Which bit of integrity would you abandon?
    - chrischen 15y ago
      Er.. if you wanted to keep your integrity you could work at neither. Your hypothetical situation is contrived. Plus you can always start your own company. There are very few situations where your only option to keep your integrity boiled down to death and even then people have chosen death over giving up their integrity.
    - gruseom 15y ago
      Not for me - I hate that desert island moral dilemma thing. Inevitably, what is really being asked is "What would a person in a contrived puzzle situation say"?
- chrischen 15y ago
  > Unfortunately cultural norms are very strong. Racism was once the norm in the US. And yes it was deeply ingrained in society but it only came down because people started opposing it.