7 ms·
> Of course the only way to win would be by pushing your enemy back down the stairs and then with whoever is left above you, retake the entire castle. > Yeah,
by stult 3y ago
> Of course the only way to win would be by pushing your enemy back down the stairs and then with whoever is left above you, retake the entire castle.
> Yeah, that’s unlikely to work out.
> Frankly, if you find yourself in this position the castle is probably already lost.
This argument directly contradicts the instructions of Vegetius, whose De Re Militari was *the* definitive military manual of the Middle Ages. Specifically, in book 4, he writes,
> Innumerable instances are to be met with where the enemy were entirely cut in pieces, even after they had penetrated the body of the place: this certainly will happen, if the besieged continue in possession of the ramparts, towers, and highest parts of the city... The sole resource after a place is forced, either by day or night, is however to secure the ramparts, towers, and all the highest places, and to dispute every inch of ground with the enemy as they advance through the streets.
It's hard to overstate how important Vegetius was to Medieval strategists, who treated his work practically as gospel and would generally try to follow its recommendations to the letter. So I seriously doubt any medieval strategist would have viewed the only conduit to the critical and decisive high ground positions as tactically irrelevant.
- Tao3300 3y agoVegetius, pray tell what the scrying glass saith of yon fortification level?
- bigstrat2003 3y agoVerily, coz, it saith the level be over four hundred and fifty score!
- Tao3300 3y agoGod's nails! Four hundred and fifty score?!
- Grimblewald 3y agoStill doesn't say anything about twisting direction of the staircase.
- zeteo 3y agoMaybe they're easier to build that way if you're right handed?
- atoav 3y agoIf you use a handweapon (sword, axe, knife, hammer, etc.) you need space to perfom a swing with any meaningful amount of energy. Medival stairways were built this way because people going upstairs won't have the space to swing if they are righthanders. Meanwhile people going downstairs have a good amount of space to do precisely that. The assumption of course is that you as the defender are the one fleeing upstairs, while the attacker is trying to get to you. Source: grew up around medival european castles and have been on a few tours. When you are inside such a stairway this becomes very obvious.
- mintplant 3y agoThis is all addressed in the linked article. Even the bit about the tours.
- zeteo 3y agoYes, it seems more likely they would do something like roll down a large boulder rather than push the enemy down the stairs. Having been up a few of these staircases recently, the prospect of something heavy coming down from above sounds absolutely terrifying.
- angled 3y agoWhat are the optimal parameters for the size, mass, and velocity of the stone, and the material, height, and thickness of the walls, to meet the objectives without the stone damaging the walls? For more than one stone? How do you get them up?
- firtoz 3y agoObviously you build the castle around the stone Once you use it to crush all enemies, you rebuild the castle around the new position of the stone
- c420 3y agoAssuming you're using African stones and not European stones to maintain air-speed velocity. Though African stones are non migratory.
- helsinkiandrew 3y agoI think a long, sturdy spear to penetrate and/or push down the enemy would be equally effective and reusable
- mbreese 3y agoThis seems to discuss roads and cities… not stairs in a tower. If the direction of the stairs was so important, why isn’t that mentioned? Either is was very obvious to the authors (so not included), or not thought to be an important factor.
- atoav 3y agoAs someone who grew up around medival european castles, the reason is that righthanders with weapons going upstairs will have a harder time using their weapons than righthanders defending the stairs downstairs. When you are inside such a narrow stairway this fact becomes very obvious.
- mbreese 3y agoI understand that this is the prevailing wisdom (and it makes a ton of sense). But that’s exactly what the article is arguing against.
- pvdoom 3y agoAgreed, there are a number of accounts that do describe this happening as well