4 ms·

> See the rest of the world, where even young kids can go shopping. If you give them 5 <amount of currency>, and the item they want is less than 5, or they want

• parineum 3y ago
  What's the tax on $5?
  • tzs 3y ago
    Depends on your location. If you are somewhere with a 5% sales tax for example, it would be $0.25. If you don't want to have to know the sales tax for your location, I believe the highest sales tax in the US is under 11% so just give the kid $5.55.
    • Twirrim 3y ago
      What's the tax on the individual items in question, also, because it's all variable based on what you're buying, what city you're in etc. Pretty much everywhere else I've travelled in the world, the price on the shelf is the price you pay, even when tax changes based on what something is classified as (to whit that fun legal case of "is a jaffa cake a cake or a biscuit"). For some absolutely bizarre self-hating reason, the US has decided that, no, your experience should be "Oh wait, now I've got to go and add some seemingly random sales tax that I can't likely predict in advance, and won't know until I've rung everything up".
      • tzs 3y ago
        > What's the tax on the individual items in question, also, because it's all variable based on what you're buying, what city you're in etc. You're overlooking the context. Someone said it was easy to let young children go shopping in places where taxes are included in the sticker price because you can give the kid $5 and the kid knows they can buy any item with a sticker price that does not exceed that or a combination of cheaper items whose sticker prices do not sum to more than 5$. The implication was that this is harder for young children in the US, presumably because young children won't be able to do the complicated mathematical finagling that the rest of the world apparently thinks Americans do every time they go to the store. My point is that in the US you just give the child $5 plus enough to cover tax, and then the child can use exactly the same approach those kids elsewhere use: if sum of sticker prices <= $5 they have enough money.
        • kelipso 3y ago
          The whole point is that you want the shopping experience to be such that a child can predict how much they will pay at the counter, not so much that this particular scenario has to be considered and fulfilled.
          • lttlrck 3y ago
            on the other hand the shopping experience reflects reality.
            • kelipso 3y ago
              Whose reality lol. It can be changed easily.
            • aziaziazi 3y ago
              I disagree, in the shopper view the full price would better reflect it’s own reality.
        • pauldenton 3y ago
          This is on an article about a bill banning hidden fees But when you see something that says 4.99$ when you ring up that item at the counter, you will not have enough to pay for your 5$ because of a fee which is not posted on the pricetag
      • cgriswald 3y ago
        You're trading ease of mentally calculating the total for the obfuscation of why items increased in price and really overselling the difficulty of calculating the tax. I can see why if you're traveling to the US that could be difficult (but if you estimate 10% your estimate will be over in most places and close enough everywhere else), because you'll probably be in many places you haven't been before (or often enough to retain the information). But if you live here, you learn the tax rate for the state and what goods it applies to and you're good to go.
        • Twirrim 3y ago
          I've lived in the states for 15 years now. I know roughly what to add, though I have to play guessing games depending on even the town that I'm shopping in, (quite literally I can even walk to two stores in neighbouring cities within range of my house, and pay different prices for the same goods). It makes it no less absurd that I have to know and guess what the actual out of pocket expense is, no matter which way you slice it. Especially because it doesn't have to be this way. Given individual items aren't shown with their particular taxes on them, it obscures what I'm actually paying for what, until I've spent enough time shopping in whichever place I'm in to finally figure it out. It's just one of many little ways that the US operates that's profoundly at odds with a positive experience for citizens. You _could_ have the prices right there in the stores. You _could_ structure your tax system such that the prices can actually be done that way and you don't get the rounding fun that you see mentioned elsewhere in this thread. However, because you do this "hide the actual price" there's zero incentive to actually implement tax approaches that are nicer as a citizen/consumer. If you'll forgive a slight diversion, it's a similar deal with tax incentives. In a lot of countries around the world, they structure it such that the tax incentives happen at time of purchase, so e.g. a $2,500 rebate would result in you, as the buyer, buying at price $2,500 less than it would have been otherwise. You never see that $2,500 at all, you just see a much cheaper sticker price. It's end user focused, like you'd think a government for the citizens, by the citizens, would be. The US approaches it such that you have to actually have the money spare up front, to eventually get it back (or mess about with your monthly withholding to try to claw it back that way, quicker). This penalises poorer citizens, who otherwise might have been able to afford to buy whatever thing it is that they could potentially afford. You essentially miss out on the tax incentives the government comes up with, unless you happen to be rich enough to afford a well versed tax accountant, or have enough luxury of time to sit there and work through all the possible rebates you might be eligible for. Neither of which poor or disadvantaged people tend to have. With this being the way that tax incentives have long been done, there's no real incentive to try to do it any other way, even though it would be better for literally every citizen, rich and poor alike, with the possible exception of tax accountants. You'd all get specific rebates you were entitled for.
    • brewdad 3y ago
      Or, hear me out, we could do the same as the rest of the world and post the final price on the item. There is no reason not to except the retail lobby is more powerful than a divided electorate.
      • prepend 3y ago
        I think government also likes it as increasing taxes doesn’t result in an immediate price hike.
    • Fatnino 3y ago
      I'm looking at a receipt floating around my room from my trip to Chicago in May. Cook county tax 2.75% Illinois state tax 6.25% Chicago city tax 1.25% This thing I bought had a sticker price of $11.90 How much did I pay?
    • itake 3y ago
      > Depends on your location. and depends on what you're buying. See sugar taxes, takeout taxes, restaurant taxes, etc. Also, how do you know if tip is applied before or after taxes?
• joshxyz 3y ago
  that's freakin stupid. adults in our country assume a $1 and a $5 price tag is tax inclusive. the receipts show it. how you gonna tell the kid it's priced at $1 but you gotta pay more than $1 because it isn't tax inclusive? lol
• prepend 3y ago
  Tax rates vary based on the type of good. Give a kid $5 and send them to the grocery store and you have to anticipate if they’ll buy candy or an apple or soap or a magazine. The only advantage to not including taxes is that people spend more money. This is marginally better for stores and worse for everyone else. Theres no genuine benefit to society for not including taxes in the posted price.
  • wand3r 3y ago
    I learned, from HN actually, that the reason for this is actually because taxes must be included and enumerated so that the public know the rate and thus can be cognizant of taxes levied against them. Probably goes back to the founding of America being a country that started in large part out of a rebellion against taxes. While at this point it makes more sense to come up with a new law/methodology, I understand the thought process. If an item is $5 final price you don't know how much the tax actually was. The taxes can be raised easily and only those paying close attention to local or state politics would know. It's a backstop against government greed. Again, I think we could reform this tax code and tip culture. However, I believe you legally have to include the tax. Maybe you simply should only be able to advertise the final price, but on the receipt it shows the tax rate.
    • briHass 3y ago
      All the more reason why everyone should be forced to do quarterly estimated taxes (like 1099 or non W2 workers do) instead of having the amount automatically withheld every paycheck by the payroll system. Having the money 'in your hand' and then having to write a check for thousands of dollars feels much different. The guillotines would appear quickly.
      • lazide 3y ago
        That’s why it doesn’t happen, obviously. The entire roll out of the first federal income tax in WW2 was designed to be ‘invisible’ to your average American exactly because of the guillotine concern. And it still widely works - queue all the folks happy about ‘getting their money from the gov’t’ in the form of their tax refund at the end of the year.