5 ms·

What part did MS steal? The pivot table concept (as in summarising data by categories of rows and similar operations) existed for a really long time, so I'm gue

What part did MS steal? The pivot table concept (as in summarising data by categories of rows and similar operations) existed for a really long time, so I'm guessing you're not referring to that?

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
Aren't you allowed to "steal" basically everything except exact code in software? Didn't the supreme court rule in favor of Google vs Oracle that Google's use of the JDK API was fair use? Wasn't there also a recent supreme court ruling that you can't patent non-novel math (algorithms)? I'm not sure how you could be convicted of theft in software outside of literally stealing and reselling someone's non-open source code.
kagakuninja 3y ago
You could say they just reverse-engineered Brio's product, and therefore it wasn't theft. But the presence of the Brio sample wine DB appearing on MS Office boxes showed that they bought a copy of DataPivot and used that DB when developing their clone. They didn't even bother hiding the evidence. BTW, DataPivot was released in 1991, and the only other references I've seen for prior art are a Lotus product released about the same time.
- viraptor 3y ago
  I mean the concept existed on pen and paper or equivalent likely since we started tabulating numbers/money and doing math. I was curious if by stealing you meant the interface to do it, the idea of putting it in a computer, the test data, or something else.
- albedoa 3y ago
  It's not clear that you understand the question you are answering. The "product" being referred to here is a centuries-old concept. There is nothing about pivot tables themselves that Microsoft would need to reverse engineer. The comment you are responding to is not challenging your use of the word "stole" — it is asking you what exactly MS is alleged to have stolen, reverse engineered, or otherwise gleaned from your former employer.

What part did MS steal? The pivot table concept (as in summarising data by categories of rows and similar operations) existed for a really long time, so I'm guessing you're not referring to that?

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

Aren't you allowed to "steal" basically everything except exact code in software? Didn't the supreme court rule in favor of Google vs Oracle that Google's use of the JDK API was fair use? Wasn't there also a recent supreme court ruling that you can't patent non-novel math (algorithms)? I'm not sure how you could be convicted of theft in software outside of literally stealing and reselling someone's non-open source code.

kagakuninja 3y ago

You could say they just reverse-engineered Brio's product, and therefore it wasn't theft. But the presence of the Brio sample wine DB appearing on MS Office boxes showed that they bought a copy of DataPivot and used that DB when developing their clone. They didn't even bother hiding the evidence. BTW, DataPivot was released in 1991, and the only other references I've seen for prior art are a Lotus product released about the same time.

viraptor 3y ago
I mean the concept existed on pen and paper or equivalent likely since we started tabulating numbers/money and doing math. I was curious if by stealing you meant the interface to do it, the idea of putting it in a computer, the test data, or something else.
albedoa 3y ago
It's not clear that you understand the question you are answering. The "product" being referred to here is a centuries-old concept. There is nothing about pivot tables themselves that Microsoft would need to reverse engineer. The comment you are responding to is not challenging your use of the word "stole" — it is asking you what exactly MS is alleged to have stolen, reverse engineered, or otherwise gleaned from your former employer.