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> voting in New York seems to be more third-world style ethnic warfare > People vote along ethnic/racial lines (look at the primary voting for Adams versus Yan

> voting in New York seems to be more third-world style ethnic warfare > People vote along ethnic/racial lines (look at the primary voting for Adams versus Yang versus Garcia) This seems to imply something quite other than a broad cross-racial constituency. It also seems to fit oddly with the fact that progressives of all races voted against Adams. And why mention Garcia if there "wasn't a major Latino candidate"? Look, I'm clearly not inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt here. You make incendiary trolling claims, and when asked to explain yourself, backpedal into vacuous, but reasonable-sounding, contradictions. And you get leeway because you played the role of a Burkean foil for other popular commenters here. But at this point, it just seems like you're showing contempt for the site, and for its users.

selimthegrim 3y ago
The secularism as class marker bit really ground my gears.
- rayiner 3y ago
  In both america and Bangladesh, moreso in the latter, secularism is a structured form of elite oppression against the masses. In America it reflects the American elites’ belief in the moral superiority of the French, while in Bangladesh it reflects the Bangladeshi elites’ belief in the moral superiority of Europeans.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    My family is Ahmedi, (not a community historically disposed to the moral superiority of Europeans or Christians and not an upper class family either) so secularism was and is a way of making sure the masses don’t turn us into mincemeat (in Bangladesh too) What I’m trying to drive at is that this ignores indigenous leftist as well as minority (historically Ahmedis were never leftist with exception of 1970) movements.
    - rayiner 3y ago
      It does, insofar as religious minorities have very little influence on Bangladeshi political dynamics. The overriding force for secularism in the country is the notion that Islam is for poor and backward people. Similarly in the US, religion is what actually poorer racial minorities have in common with the dominant group. Secularism actually arose in the US in response to poor Catholic immigrants.
      - selimthegrim 3y ago
        How can this be true with Washington’s letter to the Jews, Jefferson’s Bible and letter to the Danbury Baptists, the Ohio constitution, etc https://fedsoc.org/federalist-society-review-new/the-ohio-constitution-of-1803-jefferson-s-danbury-letter-and-religion-in-education https://fedsoc.org/federalist-society-review-new/the-ohio-co...
rayiner 3y ago
Garcia is white—her maiden name is McIver. So the black candidate got the majority of black support, the white candidate got the majority of whites, the Asian won the majority of Asians. Adams expressly campaigned on starkly racial terms: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/20/nyregion/adams-yang-race-garcia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/20/nyregion/adams-yang-race-..., https://nypost.com/2021/06/20/adams-rips-garcia-yang-for-allying-against-him-on-juneteenth https://nypost.com/2021/06/20/adams-rips-garcia-yang-for-all.... I might find Adams’ criticisms of white progressives amusing, but it’s not a recipe for building a city focused on getting the trains to run on time. > It also seems to fit oddly with the fact that progressives of all races voted against Adams. Progressives make up a small percentage of the electorate. The fact that racial conflict plays a major and destructive role in city politics doesn’t mean there aren’t also other issues in play. I don’t know what makes you think I’m “trolling.” Show me a city that, like NYC, has an established history of ethnic partisanship in politics but also has an effective government?
- tptacek 3y ago
  As you well know, when you're wading into volatile arguments here --- and the racial dynamics of elections are obviously that, for multiple reasons! --- the onus is on you, the commenter, to prevent spontaneous conflagration by writing carefully and hedging away the most noxious interpretations of what you're writing. You share responsibility for how your writing is interpreted. You've long since given up on that, which is why you're finding so much of what you write so unwelcome here.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    OP isn’t overreading my point, he’s disagreeing on the merits. Correcting the misconception about Garcia’s race, I don’t see how anyone could disagree that NYC has quite bitter racial politics, and that’s long been true. The crux of our disagreement seems to boil down to him wanting to avoid the implication that New York’s racial politics is a bad thing for the city’s governance, and me not caring about doing so. That’s fine, we don’t need to defensively write around each other’s pieties.

selimthegrim 3y ago

The secularism as class marker bit really ground my gears.

rayiner 3y ago
In both america and Bangladesh, moreso in the latter, secularism is a structured form of elite oppression against the masses. In America it reflects the American elites’ belief in the moral superiority of the French, while in Bangladesh it reflects the Bangladeshi elites’ belief in the moral superiority of Europeans.
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  My family is Ahmedi, (not a community historically disposed to the moral superiority of Europeans or Christians and not an upper class family either) so secularism was and is a way of making sure the masses don’t turn us into mincemeat (in Bangladesh too) What I’m trying to drive at is that this ignores indigenous leftist as well as minority (historically Ahmedis were never leftist with exception of 1970) movements.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    It does, insofar as religious minorities have very little influence on Bangladeshi political dynamics. The overriding force for secularism in the country is the notion that Islam is for poor and backward people. Similarly in the US, religion is what actually poorer racial minorities have in common with the dominant group. Secularism actually arose in the US in response to poor Catholic immigrants.
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      How can this be true with Washington’s letter to the Jews, Jefferson’s Bible and letter to the Danbury Baptists, the Ohio constitution, etc https://fedsoc.org/federalist-society-review-new/the-ohio-constitution-of-1803-jefferson-s-danbury-letter-and-religion-in-education https://fedsoc.org/federalist-society-review-new/the-ohio-co...

rayiner 3y ago

Garcia is white—her maiden name is McIver. So the black candidate got the majority of black support, the white candidate got the majority of whites, the Asian won the majority of Asians. Adams expressly campaigned on starkly racial terms: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/20/nyregion/adams-yang-race-garcia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/20/nyregion/adams-yang-race-..., https://nypost.com/2021/06/20/adams-rips-garcia-yang-for-allying-against-him-on-juneteenth https://nypost.com/2021/06/20/adams-rips-garcia-yang-for-all.... I might find Adams’ criticisms of white progressives amusing, but it’s not a recipe for building a city focused on getting the trains to run on time. > It also seems to fit oddly with the fact that progressives of all races voted against Adams. Progressives make up a small percentage of the electorate. The fact that racial conflict plays a major and destructive role in city politics doesn’t mean there aren’t also other issues in play. I don’t know what makes you think I’m “trolling.” Show me a city that, like NYC, has an established history of ethnic partisanship in politics but also has an effective government?

tptacek 3y ago
As you well know, when you're wading into volatile arguments here --- and the racial dynamics of elections are obviously that, for multiple reasons! --- the onus is on you, the commenter, to prevent spontaneous conflagration by writing carefully and hedging away the most noxious interpretations of what you're writing. You share responsibility for how your writing is interpreted. You've long since given up on that, which is why you're finding so much of what you write so unwelcome here.
- rayiner 3y ago
  OP isn’t overreading my point, he’s disagreeing on the merits. Correcting the misconception about Garcia’s race, I don’t see how anyone could disagree that NYC has quite bitter racial politics, and that’s long been true. The crux of our disagreement seems to boil down to him wanting to avoid the implication that New York’s racial politics is a bad thing for the city’s governance, and me not caring about doing so. That’s fine, we don’t need to defensively write around each other’s pieties.