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It’s an interesting idea, but I wonder if batteries in an outdoor vault somewhere would be better from a maintenance / fire safety perspective. Transmission los

by teeray 3y ago

It’s an interesting idea, but I wonder if batteries in an outdoor vault somewhere would be better from a maintenance / fire safety perspective. Transmission losses might be minimized by keeping those batteries within the neighborhoods where their stored power would be used.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
The problem is scale. You either get cost savings using utility scale Megapacks, or you get scale with cookie cutter Powerwalls in each home (sometimes, but not always, paired with rooftop or ground mount solar). In the end, whatever is fast and cheapest wins vs bespoke solutions. As the post notes, Powerwalls at homes are cheaper than more transmission infra. The logistics around installing this kit is also easier than big infra projects.
- dessimus 3y ago
  Additionally, Powerwall installation can be contracted out to multiple local residential electricians around the state, whereas high voltage line work requires more specialized, therefore, more expensive contractors.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Interestingly, licensed electricians can be more expensive than journey linemen who work on distribution or transmission infra. They are different credentials. (I know a variety of folks in both populations)
    - dessimus 3y ago
      But does that mean residential contractors charge a higher rate than distribution/transmission contractors for their linemen? Residential customers have more competition and stand to be much more cost sensitive.
rapjr9 3y ago
That could work also, it would be basically turning the power system into a bunch of interconnected microgrids. In Vermont power loss happens often, usually due to snow and ice bringing tree branches and trees down on power lines. If everyone has a battery backup then a downed line doesn't affect anyone and fixing it can be more leisurely. If a neighborhood is on a microgrid a downed line can still take out half of, or the whole, neighborhood. Just getting to the location where a repair is needed can be difficult in a big snow storm and especially in ice storms, so individual batteries would help with that.
everforward 3y ago
Batteries in an outdoor vault still have a vulnerability in their power lines. Doesn't matter if your neighborhood has a battery if there's a down power line or transformer so the batteries have to stay shut off. You'd also need to have a way to insulate each neighborhood so that their power stays local to the neighborhood instead of seeping out into the greater network. Some kind of dynamic terminators. The dynamic terminators would specifically be a nightmare. Do they fail closed or open? If they fail open while the battery thinks it should be on, it could explode. If they fail closed, the terminators can shut off the power for a neighborhood (or maybe multiple if the power lines run in a chain). If the remote control doesn't work, they'll have to send someone out to manually do the process to shut down the battery or get it in sync with the grid and flip the terminator.

by teeray 3y ago

toomuchtodo 3y ago

The problem is scale. You either get cost savings using utility scale Megapacks, or you get scale with cookie cutter Powerwalls in each home (sometimes, but not always, paired with rooftop or ground mount solar). In the end, whatever is fast and cheapest wins vs bespoke solutions. As the post notes, Powerwalls at homes are cheaper than more transmission infra. The logistics around installing this kit is also easier than big infra projects.

dessimus 3y ago
Additionally, Powerwall installation can be contracted out to multiple local residential electricians around the state, whereas high voltage line work requires more specialized, therefore, more expensive contractors.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  Interestingly, licensed electricians can be more expensive than journey linemen who work on distribution or transmission infra. They are different credentials. (I know a variety of folks in both populations)
  - dessimus 3y ago
    But does that mean residential contractors charge a higher rate than distribution/transmission contractors for their linemen? Residential customers have more competition and stand to be much more cost sensitive.

rapjr9 3y ago

That could work also, it would be basically turning the power system into a bunch of interconnected microgrids. In Vermont power loss happens often, usually due to snow and ice bringing tree branches and trees down on power lines. If everyone has a battery backup then a downed line doesn't affect anyone and fixing it can be more leisurely. If a neighborhood is on a microgrid a downed line can still take out half of, or the whole, neighborhood. Just getting to the location where a repair is needed can be difficult in a big snow storm and especially in ice storms, so individual batteries would help with that.

everforward 3y ago

Batteries in an outdoor vault still have a vulnerability in their power lines. Doesn't matter if your neighborhood has a battery if there's a down power line or transformer so the batteries have to stay shut off. You'd also need to have a way to insulate each neighborhood so that their power stays local to the neighborhood instead of seeping out into the greater network. Some kind of dynamic terminators. The dynamic terminators would specifically be a nightmare. Do they fail closed or open? If they fail open while the battery thinks it should be on, it could explode. If they fail closed, the terminators can shut off the power for a neighborhood (or maybe multiple if the power lines run in a chain). If the remote control doesn't work, they'll have to send someone out to manually do the process to shut down the battery or get it in sync with the grid and flip the terminator.