4 ms·

> I'm not sure that the 1A can scale properly for modernity, though. I agree. I think the modern-day challenge is not that one cannot speak freely, but that t

> I'm not sure that the 1A can scale properly for modernity, though. I agree. I think the modern-day challenge is not that one cannot speak freely, but that their voice cannot compete with institution-sponsored propaganda machines --- after all, humans have limited attention. The situation is arguably worse because it suppresses free speech without being appear to suppress it.

bassrattle 3y ago
Literacy rates have gone up, minorities have a bigger voice than perhaps ever. Trust in legacy media (propaganda machines) is at an all time low. It seems like the issue is that each voice is a drop in the bucket now while there are naturally giants throwing their weight around. I'm not saying we don't have new problems which need new solutions, but to fault the 1A I feel is misled. In a world where free speech is still under constant attack, we should reaffirm the strong foundations we have rather than uproot entirely.
- RyEgswuCsn 3y ago
  > legacy media (propaganda machines) I'd say that qualification requires some upgrade. What's worse than an obvious propaganda machine? A machine. As for the 1A --- I didn't mean to fault it; it is not its fault.
- solardev 3y ago
  It isn't the fault of the 1A that we have a signal-to-noise problem, but the 1A severely limits the tools we are able to use to address the problem (because of the simplistic way that "Congress shall make no law..." is written).
ok_dad 3y ago
> their voice cannot compete with institution-sponsored propaganda machines When has the common person alone ever had the voice to compete with large institutional voices? I think never, except today it’s actually easier for a lone person to get a huge platform without owning a newspaper. Suppose we pass laws allowing the executive branch to limit speech that’s against national security. Who is to say a future government won’t use it against us to limit our freedoms rather than a foreign agent’s? We already can see several laws passed to limit terrorism have instead allowed the government to spy on regular citizens and other such abuses. Now, in the name of “national security” we want to move away from free speech and start censoring things according to the current administration’s wishes? No thank you!
- solardev 3y ago
  > When has the common person alone ever had the voice to compete with large institutional voices? I think never, except today it’s actually easier for a lone person to get a huge platform without owning a newspaper. Very good point! > Suppose we pass laws allowing the executive branch to limit speech that’s against national security. But I don't think this necessarily follows. In the US, government is always the default bogeyman for "authoritarian overreach", but that is so rarely true anymore. I can't remember the last time the executive branch (or any branch) tried to oppress me or take away my sacredly-held freedoms. It's almost always a big corporation or rich man or another: Meta/Twitter/Musk/etc, or a healthcare company, or some TV personality, or some healthcare/gun/religious fanatic lobby. Why does "we as a society should decide how and when to regulate speech" necessarily lead to "the opposing party's president is going to censor me"? If anything this is just a call for more direct democracy instead of two-party elitism, no? It's not so much a battlecry against government, but of the co-optation of government by the elites -- which are almost always tied to wealth. What really protects the common person is other common people, who only have power in more democratic traditions, not by weakening democratic governments in favor of uber-rich libertarians and corrupt crony capitalism.

bassrattle 3y ago

Literacy rates have gone up, minorities have a bigger voice than perhaps ever. Trust in legacy media (propaganda machines) is at an all time low. It seems like the issue is that each voice is a drop in the bucket now while there are naturally giants throwing their weight around. I'm not saying we don't have new problems which need new solutions, but to fault the 1A I feel is misled. In a world where free speech is still under constant attack, we should reaffirm the strong foundations we have rather than uproot entirely.

RyEgswuCsn 3y ago
> legacy media (propaganda machines) I'd say that qualification requires some upgrade. What's worse than an obvious propaganda machine? A machine. As for the 1A --- I didn't mean to fault it; it is not its fault.
solardev 3y ago
It isn't the fault of the 1A that we have a signal-to-noise problem, but the 1A severely limits the tools we are able to use to address the problem (because of the simplistic way that "Congress shall make no law..." is written).

ok_dad 3y ago

> their voice cannot compete with institution-sponsored propaganda machines When has the common person alone ever had the voice to compete with large institutional voices? I think never, except today it’s actually easier for a lone person to get a huge platform without owning a newspaper. Suppose we pass laws allowing the executive branch to limit speech that’s against national security. Who is to say a future government won’t use it against us to limit our freedoms rather than a foreign agent’s? We already can see several laws passed to limit terrorism have instead allowed the government to spy on regular citizens and other such abuses. Now, in the name of “national security” we want to move away from free speech and start censoring things according to the current administration’s wishes? No thank you!

solardev 3y ago
> When has the common person alone ever had the voice to compete with large institutional voices? I think never, except today it’s actually easier for a lone person to get a huge platform without owning a newspaper. Very good point! > Suppose we pass laws allowing the executive branch to limit speech that’s against national security. But I don't think this necessarily follows. In the US, government is always the default bogeyman for "authoritarian overreach", but that is so rarely true anymore. I can't remember the last time the executive branch (or any branch) tried to oppress me or take away my sacredly-held freedoms. It's almost always a big corporation or rich man or another: Meta/Twitter/Musk/etc, or a healthcare company, or some TV personality, or some healthcare/gun/religious fanatic lobby. Why does "we as a society should decide how and when to regulate speech" necessarily lead to "the opposing party's president is going to censor me"? If anything this is just a call for more direct democracy instead of two-party elitism, no? It's not so much a battlecry against government, but of the co-optation of government by the elites -- which are almost always tied to wealth. What really protects the common person is other common people, who only have power in more democratic traditions, not by weakening democratic governments in favor of uber-rich libertarians and corrupt crony capitalism.