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> The way I see it is this: If war were to break out between the US and China right now, what could they do with tiktok? If you're directing your peace-time po

by vkou 3y ago

> The way I see it is this: If war were to break out between the US and China right now, what could they do with tiktok? If you're directing your peace-time policy based on a hypothetical worst that can be done in war-time, you're going to have really insane peace-time policies. If war were to break out tomorrow, we might want to institute a draft, I guess we should start drafting people now? Nobody would blink twice if TikTok were turned off during a war so I'm not seeing how that hypothetical is relevant to anything. I'd expect phone lines and internet cables to be turned off during a war too, but I'd be absolutely insane to demand that we cut them now, because of some hypothetical harm that might come if a very particular kind of shooting war between two nuclear powers (that somehow does not end in nuclear war) broke out.

wyldberry 3y ago
There's never been a more ripe time for a third axis to open up stretching and bankrupting America. In America, and the west, we think often in terms of binary peace/war. This is not the same philosophy shared by those who wish to replace America as the world power. It's good to have the frameworks in place to execute these things when we need them and it's my opinion that we will need them in the next five years.
- vkou 3y ago
  America will be replaced as a unipolar world power, it's a question of simple mathematics and economics and time. You'll get over it, same as the Brits did last century. Instead of doubling down on paranoia of the foreign 33-dimensional chess player[1], if you want the US to strengthen itself, look at dealing with its internal enemies and problems, as opposed to clutching pearls at external ones. All of our injuries are self-inflicted. [1] I'll note that the Department of State isn't stupid, it plays similar, long-planning games that you ascribe to foreign powers.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - wyldberry 3y ago
    All states play the same game. Of course it's math, economics, but it's also geography and demographics. All of our injuries are self-inflicted. However, each state will attempt to act in a way to maximize power. In this inevitable confrontation that will set the next rules-based era of power, I want my side to come out on top.
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
> If you're directing your peace-time policy based on a hypothetical worst that can be done in war-time Not necessarily. Relations with most countries are either stable, trending positive, or they are not a threat. China is big enough to be a threat with relations that are trending in the wrong direction. I think it's merely trying to make smart policy prediction.
- vkou 3y ago
  Why is this a smart policy decision, but restarting a draft and cutting the phone and internet lines[1] isn't? You've put a five year timeframe on this! That's a 'we need to act yesterday' in political terms! [1] After all, I can only imagine what will be done in war-time with a telephone connection - and it's not going to be good!
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    We can walk and chew gum, I'm sure all of those are on the table as well.
    - vkou 3y ago
      > I'm sure all of those are on the table as well. They aren't 'on the table' in any sense of the word. I'm not opening the papers every other week, and seeing yet another take on 'Restart the draft', and 'Cut the phone lines' proposals getting kicked around Congress. They are kept as options in the event of hostilities, but unlike this ban (Which you use the same justifications to support), nobody's shouting that they need to be done yesterday.
  - verve_rat 3y ago
    Because the public won't accept cutting internet lines or bringing back the draft, but enough of the voting public might accept a Tik Tok ban. Seems pretty obvious?

by vkou 3y ago

wyldberry 3y ago

There's never been a more ripe time for a third axis to open up stretching and bankrupting America. In America, and the west, we think often in terms of binary peace/war. This is not the same philosophy shared by those who wish to replace America as the world power. It's good to have the frameworks in place to execute these things when we need them and it's my opinion that we will need them in the next five years.

vkou 3y ago
America will be replaced as a unipolar world power, it's a question of simple mathematics and economics and time. You'll get over it, same as the Brits did last century. Instead of doubling down on paranoia of the foreign 33-dimensional chess player[1], if you want the US to strengthen itself, look at dealing with its internal enemies and problems, as opposed to clutching pearls at external ones. All of our injuries are self-inflicted. [1] I'll note that the Department of State isn't stupid, it plays similar, long-planning games that you ascribe to foreign powers.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- wyldberry 3y ago
  All states play the same game. Of course it's math, economics, but it's also geography and demographics. All of our injuries are self-inflicted. However, each state will attempt to act in a way to maximize power. In this inevitable confrontation that will set the next rules-based era of power, I want my side to come out on top.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

> If you're directing your peace-time policy based on a hypothetical worst that can be done in war-time Not necessarily. Relations with most countries are either stable, trending positive, or they are not a threat. China is big enough to be a threat with relations that are trending in the wrong direction. I think it's merely trying to make smart policy prediction.

vkou 3y ago
Why is this a smart policy decision, but restarting a draft and cutting the phone and internet lines[1] isn't? You've put a five year timeframe on this! That's a 'we need to act yesterday' in political terms! [1] After all, I can only imagine what will be done in war-time with a telephone connection - and it's not going to be good!
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  We can walk and chew gum, I'm sure all of those are on the table as well.
  - vkou 3y ago
    > I'm sure all of those are on the table as well. They aren't 'on the table' in any sense of the word. I'm not opening the papers every other week, and seeing yet another take on 'Restart the draft', and 'Cut the phone lines' proposals getting kicked around Congress. They are kept as options in the event of hostilities, but unlike this ban (Which you use the same justifications to support), nobody's shouting that they need to be done yesterday.
- verve_rat 3y ago
  Because the public won't accept cutting internet lines or bringing back the draft, but enough of the voting public might accept a Tik Tok ban. Seems pretty obvious?