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I feel like this article is missing a gigantic point: your PI is everything as a PhD student, if you have a PI who’s a shitty person (sometimes even unknowingly

I feel like this article is missing a gigantic point: your PI is everything as a PhD student, if you have a PI who’s a shitty person (sometimes even unknowingly), you are going to be in hell for four to seven years. Don’t pick your PI just based on «they seem to be at the forefront of research on this field », also check how they treat their students. This is not like a normal job where you can easily quit, you’re likely going to be stuck with your PI, so they better be good.

soupfordummies 3y ago
I think the entire grad school "industry" really needs a "Me Too" moment. Abuse and exploitation are the norm it feels like :(
stefanpie 3y ago
This is my advise to people who ask me for advise when applying to PhD / graduate school for research. The advisor is probably the only other main factor besides finances and any other personal constraints. If you have a great advisor all around (not just the best researcher in their field, as in they also know how to mentor, teacher, network, and help you reach your goals), they will know how to navigate your different research interests and goals of your PhD and get you to where you want to go.
the_snooze 3y ago
This 120%. Your day-to-day, your mental health, and your research success are largely a function of your lab's culture, and it's the PI who sets that culture. And the unfortunate reality is that PIs really don't get any formal training on culture-setting and people management, so there are some really successful folks out there who suck at running their groups. The way you tilt the odds in your favor for getting a good PI-student match is to be embedded in the field. If you're an undergrad, getting involved in research is a great low-risk way to do this. People in research have reputations in their field, and people in the know will direct promising students away from labs with bad cultures.
orochimaaru 3y ago
From my experience 1. Don’t opt for a phd just because it sounds cool (remember the first tweet shared in that article). 2. Academia is a pretty hard space if you can’t get your own funding or if you don’t like hustling for it. Getting tenure track jobs without having funding attached is impossible. 3. Very few jobs in industry need a PhD. Most are ok with a masters. Those that require a PhD can be selective based on where you graduate from and what your publication record is. 4. Know your PI well and reach out to his/her previous students who have already graduated. Some may reply - especially those with a bad experience. 5. Back to point #1, don’t take up the PhD just because you get the assistance and stipend. Make sure you really like your subject - it’s the only thing you’re doing for the next 4-12 years depending on your discipline while subsisting on poverty level stipends
- nyssos 3y ago
  > Very few jobs in industry need a PhD. Most are ok with a masters. This varies dramatically by field.
  - orochimaaru 3y ago
    What industry has a heavy concentration of PhD except academia?
    - lightspot21 3y ago
      IC design for behemoths like Intel/AMD/Nvidia. AFAIK none of those is gonna let you anywhere near their multibillion-dollar design without being at the top of the field or having lots of experience (>5yrs) already
      - pc86 3y ago
        Is 5 years really the bar for "lots of experience?" I feel like this is a byproduct of current (last 10 years or so) frontend/bootcamp dev mentality that you're a senior engineer after a 6-week course and 2-3 years of experience at a consulting body shop. Even if you get a PhD your working career is going to be around 35 years. Add 5-10 if you're done after college, and even more if you're not doing college. I think we need to stop pretending people are senior when they're 10-15% of the way through their career.
etrautmann 3y ago
Yes - this is unfortunately everything. There are a number of categories to optimize (research area, lab size, funding, university, other lab members, etc) but the biggest factor is your relationship with your PI. I cannot imagine working as a PhD student in a lab where I don't deeply respect and get along with the PI. I was very lucky but selected for this when choosing PhD labs. A surefire way to have a terrible few years is to ignore others advice about PIs to avoid.
- prosqlinjector 3y ago
  I chose mine because he was a reasonably guy to work with and talk to. What I did not know at the time was that he was very junior in the department and needed to please other professors. So even though I liked working with him, I was quite helpless at certain difficult parts of the process.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
chriskanan 3y ago
Far too few incoming students value this, even if explicitly told. They will go to the lab of the most famous professor at the highest rank university, even if that PI is not a great mentor. Not all PIs are intentionally aiming to make their student's lives hell, but many inadvertently do by providing insufficient mentorship, which results in students suffering huge amounts of anguish because they are struggling to excel and know it. If a PI isn't meeting with each PhD student for at least 30-60 minutes per week, especially in the first few years, they are probably not doing a great job. I always encourage students to email the current and former students of the professors they want to work with once admitted to see if they can have a video chat to discuss what it is like working in the lab. Even then, it can be hard to get frank feedback.

soupfordummies 3y ago

I think the entire grad school "industry" really needs a "Me Too" moment. Abuse and exploitation are the norm it feels like :(

stefanpie 3y ago

This is my advise to people who ask me for advise when applying to PhD / graduate school for research. The advisor is probably the only other main factor besides finances and any other personal constraints. If you have a great advisor all around (not just the best researcher in their field, as in they also know how to mentor, teacher, network, and help you reach your goals), they will know how to navigate your different research interests and goals of your PhD and get you to where you want to go.

the_snooze 3y ago

This 120%. Your day-to-day, your mental health, and your research success are largely a function of your lab's culture, and it's the PI who sets that culture. And the unfortunate reality is that PIs really don't get any formal training on culture-setting and people management, so there are some really successful folks out there who suck at running their groups. The way you tilt the odds in your favor for getting a good PI-student match is to be embedded in the field. If you're an undergrad, getting involved in research is a great low-risk way to do this. People in research have reputations in their field, and people in the know will direct promising students away from labs with bad cultures.

orochimaaru 3y ago

From my experience 1. Don’t opt for a phd just because it sounds cool (remember the first tweet shared in that article). 2. Academia is a pretty hard space if you can’t get your own funding or if you don’t like hustling for it. Getting tenure track jobs without having funding attached is impossible. 3. Very few jobs in industry need a PhD. Most are ok with a masters. Those that require a PhD can be selective based on where you graduate from and what your publication record is. 4. Know your PI well and reach out to his/her previous students who have already graduated. Some may reply - especially those with a bad experience. 5. Back to point #1, don’t take up the PhD just because you get the assistance and stipend. Make sure you really like your subject - it’s the only thing you’re doing for the next 4-12 years depending on your discipline while subsisting on poverty level stipends

nyssos 3y ago
> Very few jobs in industry need a PhD. Most are ok with a masters. This varies dramatically by field.
- orochimaaru 3y ago
  What industry has a heavy concentration of PhD except academia?
  - lightspot21 3y ago
    IC design for behemoths like Intel/AMD/Nvidia. AFAIK none of those is gonna let you anywhere near their multibillion-dollar design without being at the top of the field or having lots of experience (>5yrs) already
    - pc86 3y ago
      Is 5 years really the bar for "lots of experience?" I feel like this is a byproduct of current (last 10 years or so) frontend/bootcamp dev mentality that you're a senior engineer after a 6-week course and 2-3 years of experience at a consulting body shop. Even if you get a PhD your working career is going to be around 35 years. Add 5-10 if you're done after college, and even more if you're not doing college. I think we need to stop pretending people are senior when they're 10-15% of the way through their career.

etrautmann 3y ago

Yes - this is unfortunately everything. There are a number of categories to optimize (research area, lab size, funding, university, other lab members, etc) but the biggest factor is your relationship with your PI. I cannot imagine working as a PhD student in a lab where I don't deeply respect and get along with the PI. I was very lucky but selected for this when choosing PhD labs. A surefire way to have a terrible few years is to ignore others advice about PIs to avoid.

prosqlinjector 3y ago
I chose mine because he was a reasonably guy to work with and talk to. What I did not know at the time was that he was very junior in the department and needed to please other professors. So even though I liked working with him, I was quite helpless at certain difficult parts of the process.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

chriskanan 3y ago

Far too few incoming students value this, even if explicitly told. They will go to the lab of the most famous professor at the highest rank university, even if that PI is not a great mentor. Not all PIs are intentionally aiming to make their student's lives hell, but many inadvertently do by providing insufficient mentorship, which results in students suffering huge amounts of anguish because they are struggling to excel and know it. If a PI isn't meeting with each PhD student for at least 30-60 minutes per week, especially in the first few years, they are probably not doing a great job. I always encourage students to email the current and former students of the professors they want to work with once admitted to see if they can have a video chat to discuss what it is like working in the lab. Even then, it can be hard to get frank feedback.