4 ms·

- "and what can EU do about it? Nothing" The answer's right in front of you: the EU's imposing tariffs on goods exported from China into the EU. China is an ex

- "and what can EU do about it? Nothing" The answer's right in front of you: the EU's imposing tariffs on goods exported from China into the EU. China is an export economy. This matters to them. (I mean, if you want to argue that China is turning inward and its internal market will soon be the largest consumption market on the planet, sidelining the EU, I'll concede that. But in the near term, the EU market is a globally super-influential one. These policies are not irrelevant).

inglor_cz 3y ago
This only works up to a point. First, European voters may well decide that they don't care about carbon emissions that much; with every economic downturn, the green parties tend to lose votes and the far right gains. Second, "reeducation by tariffs" will produce resentments that may bite us back. I can see the reverse happening later; e.g. India adding extra tariffs to its own products unless we accept Hindutva.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > European voters may well decide that they don't care about carbon emissions that much This is tautology--of course it won't work if people don't want to do it anymore. > India adding extra tariffs to its own products unless we accept Hindutva If someone is stupid enough to do this, they don't need a reason.
  - inglor_cz 3y ago
    "If someone is stupid enough to do this, they don't need a reason." Politicians love to play tit for tat, because that gives them a plausible excuse for the masses. And you may underestimate the weight that ideologically based states put on their official ideology. IDK if it will be Hindutva and India, but we will likely see some Chinese attempts to enforce their own sensitivites. They already try to do so at universities which have a lot of Chinese students.
- throwbadubadu 3y ago
  Reeducation? I don't understand this. If I have whatever believed higher standards to something (be it carbon-free, worker protection, no child work, or whatever) but other's on the global market do not, and it makes things massively cheaper, I can only have tariffs or drop my standards (or not care about competitiveness of my industries). What other alternatives exist?
rad_gruchalski 3y ago
> The answer's right in front of you: the EU's imposing tariffs on goods exported from China into the EU. China is an export economy. This matters to them. Not until there's a cheaper alternative. Until then they will not care, the life will be just more expensive for everyone in the EU.
- dublinben 3y ago
  EU states can use some or all of this revenue for a direct dividend to citizens, like in Canada. That would make most people better off than before, in direct financial terms.
  - Detrytus 3y ago
    So they will be taking money from citizens in form of taxes so they can give it back to those same citizens? Seems like a lot of time-wasting bureaucracy.
    - itishappy 3y ago
      Yes, money will be given back that was previously leaving the country.
      - Detrytus 3y ago
        No, this money wasn't leaving the country. Suppose some item from China costs $100. Now EU will add, say, $15 tax to it, for the total price of $115. So, $100 is going to China, as previously, and $15 tax paid by EU citizens is redistributed among EU citizens. And no, do not expect Chinese companies to just eat the tax, because their profit margins are usually already thin, as they are competing on price in many markets. This may change, eventually, if Europe finally learns to manufacture things themselves, but that's a long and hard way. For at least the next decade they will have no choice but eat the tax and continue buying from China.
        wkat4242 3y ago

inglor_cz 3y ago

This only works up to a point. First, European voters may well decide that they don't care about carbon emissions that much; with every economic downturn, the green parties tend to lose votes and the far right gains. Second, "reeducation by tariffs" will produce resentments that may bite us back. I can see the reverse happening later; e.g. India adding extra tariffs to its own products unless we accept Hindutva.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> European voters may well decide that they don't care about carbon emissions that much This is tautology--of course it won't work if people don't want to do it anymore. > India adding extra tariffs to its own products unless we accept Hindutva If someone is stupid enough to do this, they don't need a reason.
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  "If someone is stupid enough to do this, they don't need a reason." Politicians love to play tit for tat, because that gives them a plausible excuse for the masses. And you may underestimate the weight that ideologically based states put on their official ideology. IDK if it will be Hindutva and India, but we will likely see some Chinese attempts to enforce their own sensitivites. They already try to do so at universities which have a lot of Chinese students.
throwbadubadu 3y ago
Reeducation? I don't understand this. If I have whatever believed higher standards to something (be it carbon-free, worker protection, no child work, or whatever) but other's on the global market do not, and it makes things massively cheaper, I can only have tariffs or drop my standards (or not care about competitiveness of my industries). What other alternatives exist?

rad_gruchalski 3y ago

> The answer's right in front of you: the EU's imposing tariffs on goods exported from China into the EU. China is an export economy. This matters to them. Not until there's a cheaper alternative. Until then they will not care, the life will be just more expensive for everyone in the EU.

dublinben 3y ago
EU states can use some or all of this revenue for a direct dividend to citizens, like in Canada. That would make most people better off than before, in direct financial terms.
- Detrytus 3y ago
  So they will be taking money from citizens in form of taxes so they can give it back to those same citizens? Seems like a lot of time-wasting bureaucracy.
  - itishappy 3y ago
    Yes, money will be given back that was previously leaving the country.
    - Detrytus 3y ago
      No, this money wasn't leaving the country. Suppose some item from China costs $100. Now EU will add, say, $15 tax to it, for the total price of $115. So, $100 is going to China, as previously, and $15 tax paid by EU citizens is redistributed among EU citizens. And no, do not expect Chinese companies to just eat the tax, because their profit margins are usually already thin, as they are competing on price in many markets. This may change, eventually, if Europe finally learns to manufacture things themselves, but that's a long and hard way. For at least the next decade they will have no choice but eat the tax and continue buying from China.
      - wkat4242 3y ago