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Electricity prices up all across Europe and instead of waiting for stabilization they just keep on piling stuff that will make Europeans even more poor. Instea
by NotGMan 3y ago
Electricity prices up all across Europe and instead of waiting for stabilization they just keep on piling stuff that will make Europeans even more poor.
Instead of focusing on China and India, which are the major polluters clearly shows that the EU lost the sight of the big picture.
>> The border tax will provide an incentive for other countries to model their own carbon prices after the EU emissions trading plan.
Yeah, no. India and China will just say "no thx" and what can EU do about it? Nothing.
- perihelions 3y ago- "and what can EU do about it? Nothing" The answer's right in front of you: the EU's imposing tariffs on goods exported from China into the EU. China is an export economy. This matters to them. (I mean, if you want to argue that China is turning inward and its internal market will soon be the largest consumption market on the planet, sidelining the EU, I'll concede that. But in the near term, the EU market is a globally super-influential one. These policies are not irrelevant).
- inglor_cz 3y agoThis only works up to a point. First, European voters may well decide that they don't care about carbon emissions that much; with every economic downturn, the green parties tend to lose votes and the far right gains. Second, "reeducation by tariffs" will produce resentments that may bite us back. I can see the reverse happening later; e.g. India adding extra tariffs to its own products unless we accept Hindutva.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> European voters may well decide that they don't care about carbon emissions that much This is tautology--of course it won't work if people don't want to do it anymore. > India adding extra tariffs to its own products unless we accept Hindutva If someone is stupid enough to do this, they don't need a reason.
- inglor_cz 3y ago"If someone is stupid enough to do this, they don't need a reason." Politicians love to play tit for tat, because that gives them a plausible excuse for the masses. And you may underestimate the weight that ideologically based states put on their official ideology. IDK if it will be Hindutva and India, but we will likely see some Chinese attempts to enforce their own sensitivites. They already try to do so at universities which have a lot of Chinese students.
- throwbadubadu 3y agoReeducation? I don't understand this. If I have whatever believed higher standards to something (be it carbon-free, worker protection, no child work, or whatever) but other's on the global market do not, and it makes things massively cheaper, I can only have tariffs or drop my standards (or not care about competitiveness of my industries). What other alternatives exist?
- rad_gruchalski 3y ago> The answer's right in front of you: the EU's imposing tariffs on goods exported from China into the EU. China is an export economy. This matters to them. Not until there's a cheaper alternative. Until then they will not care, the life will be just more expensive for everyone in the EU.
- dublinben 3y agoEU states can use some or all of this revenue for a direct dividend to citizens, like in Canada. That would make most people better off than before, in direct financial terms.
- Detrytus 3y agoSo they will be taking money from citizens in form of taxes so they can give it back to those same citizens? Seems like a lot of time-wasting bureaucracy.
- itishappy 3y agoYes, money will be given back that was previously leaving the country.
- Detrytus 3y agoNo, this money wasn't leaving the country. Suppose some item from China costs $100. Now EU will add, say, $15 tax to it, for the total price of $115. So, $100 is going to China, as previously, and $15 tax paid by EU citizens is redistributed among EU citizens. And no, do not expect Chinese companies to just eat the tax, because their profit margins are usually already thin, as they are competing on price in many markets. This may change, eventually, if Europe finally learns to manufacture things themselves, but that's a long and hard way. For at least the next decade they will have no choice but eat the tax and continue buying from China.
- wkat4242 3y ago
- 0dayz 3y agoHuh? This is not about electricity? This is a tax companies have to pay not China or India. CBAM is literally intended for countries like China, as the article explains, companies buy cheaper steel from china because European steelmarket already pay a carbon tax.
- kramerger 3y ago> Electricity prices up all across Europe There are a bunch of reasons this happened, including the war. But the main reason it hit EU so hard was because Bayern (among others) refused to allow planned green energy projects to start. Pretty much the same thing happened in Texas, with about thesame outcome. > Instead of focusing on China and India, which are the major polluters clearly shows that the EU lost the sight of the big picture This is exactly how this will work!
- dontlaugh 3y agoBoth China and India have minuscule per capita emissions when compared to the EU. The difference is more stark when accounting for emissions of exported goods, which are often consumed in the EU. The problem isn’t the poor people on the other side of the planet.
- tzs 3y agoHalf correct, sort of. India's per capita CO2 emissions per capita are around 24% of the EU's. I wouldn't call 24% minuscule but it is pretty significant so for India I'd score the claim as sort of correct. China's per capita CO2 emissions per capita are around 97% of the EU's. If they were an EU country they would be comfortably in the middle of EU country emissions per capita, about halfway between France and Germany.
- malermeister 3y ago> Instead of focusing on China and India, which are the major polluters clearly shows that the EU lost the sight of the big picture. This is focusing on China and India.
- tzs 3y agoEU's total emissions are higher than India's total emissions. Furthermore, the atmosphere is very good at mixing CO2, so a ton of CO2 has pretty much the same impact no matter who emits it. Unless you can make a good case that some people have some sort of natural or divine right to live a higher emission lifestyle than other people, allocating emission allowances equally per country makes no sense. Otherwise per capita is the right measure. If we want to hold emissions at current levels, that works out to around 4.5 tons per person per person per year. The people of India are at 40% of that, China is at 160% of that, and the EU is at 170% of that. The US is at 340%.