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> Lots of local government means taxes change over smaller distances in America than most of the world. > cultural distrust of taxation and government > a dec

> Lots of local government means taxes change over smaller distances in America than most of the world. > cultural distrust of taxation and government > a decreasing tendency to use cash > higher income per capita Really don't see how any of the points above are an obstacle to putting the ~actual~ price of a product on paper. > Also, most retailers here use paper labels Great! Makes it even easier to printout the actual price. 1) Retrieve base price from database 2) Add local tax 3) Add whatever other "hidden" cost is needed 4) Printout label.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Really don't see how any of the points above are an obstacle to putting the ~actual~ price of a product on paper The pieces of paper are in multiple places. The bill is calculated in one place. Doing things in multiple places is more costly and error prone than doing it in one. (Also, the paper being physical means a physical person must update it. The POS can be remotely managed.) Here is New York State's guide on clothing and footwear taxes [1]. (It's particularly well documented.) If any one of those counties makes a change, you're now proposing someone run through the entire store to update the affected labels or else risk lying about the price. That's manageable for a multinational. It's bonkers for a small shop owner. Instead, their POS is remotely updated (worst case, they get a bulletin to punch in a code) and when the barcode is scanned, the system figures out whether it's $110 or less and if it's really a costume or not. If consumers valued it, tax-inclusive pricing might be worth the effort. But in America, we don't. The number isn't big enough, and I'm swiping or tapping either way. (Cash-only stores do tend to be tax inclusive, at least in New York, but that's because they're usually not paying the whole tax.) As I said, I can't remember finding it helpful when I travel to tax-inclusive priced countries. Surprising as it may seem, this really is simply a cultural preference. No right answer. [1] https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/sales/pub718c.pdf https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/sales/pub718c.pdf
- PeterStuer 3y ago
  The store knows what to charge, they chose not to put it on the shelf label. When prices change, people change the shelf label, whether it is paper or ePaper tags is irrelevant to having the tax added in or not. What seems 'bonkers' to you has been standard practice in most of the world for decades.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > When prices change, people change the shelf label This isn't free. That's someone's time and energy spent on something I, as the consumer, don't care about. Why? I'd much rather have that person available to help, ready at the counter or frankly at home or in a park enjoying their life. What has meaning for you doesn't for me. I don't value having a precise price at selection versus purchase. At all. Like most Americans. That doesn't mean I don't see the value in your argument, just that I reject it as something that matters to me. > What seems 'bonkers' to you has been standard practice in most of the world for decades Not remotely comparable in terms of rulebook complexity. Also, income: if you want to find tax-inclusive round pricing in America, go to impoverished neighborhoods. There, every nickel counts and folks pay cash--it makes sense to spend the effort to precisely message pricing ex ante. Also, in most of the world posted prices either aren't a thing or are completely negotiable. Haggling at the point of sale isn't a thing in day-to-day America.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - noahtallen 3y ago
      The workers at a grocery store are already spending time setting and changing price labels across the store on a regular basis. (Such as for the many changing sales most stores have.) They often have a digital, hand-held label printer. It would be extremely simple for that printer to just print the local sales tax on the label. Not to mention the vast amount of online shopping Americans do, where it would be trivial to include a local sales tax. (Every online store I'm aware of already immediately asks for your location and tells you to search for the nearest location anyways.) I also reject the idea that most Americans wouldn't value this. I would bet money most Americans would prefer it -- they just aren't aware that other countries are capable of doing things better.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      I concede that my other comment saying "there's no reason for it not to be [included in the price]" is inaccurate, cause this is a reason. But also, how often does sales tax change that this is a real issue?
- ramblenode 3y ago
  > If consumers valued it, tax-inclusive pricing might be worth the effort. But in America, we don't. That's not true. I would guess the vast majority of consumers would at least slightly prefer that the tax be included in the display price. The problem is those consumers aren't an organized interest group, whereas retailers are. It's not a "cultural preference"--it's just the inability of the political system to address large but diffuse problems.
  - AlchemistCamp 3y ago
    I sincerely doubt that. I prefer to know how much of the price is from taxes because of transparency, as I mentioned in another comment on this thread. Furthermore, literally everywhere I’ve lived in America, I had 3+ local sales tax rates within my typical shopping range and it’s nice to know which areas have lower rates so I can preferentially make larger shopping trips there.
    - Sabinus 3y ago
      >I prefer to know how much of the price is from taxes because of transparency, as I mentioned in another comment on this thread. In the current system, to get that information you have to compare the label cost to the cost you paid. How is that more simple and convenient than looking up sales taxes in your area, or mandating they be displayed on labels in addition to price?
    - graftak 3y ago
      Sales tax is always printed on the receipt so it’s glanceable, often it is itemised too as product types might fall into varying tax brackets.
lern_too_spel 3y ago
You can't run a national "$5 footlong" or "dollar menu" national ad campaign if some states charge taxes on prepared food and some don't, and of those states that charge taxes, some require tax inclusive pricing and some don't. Tax-inclusive pricing isn't something that can be solved with a state law.
- graftak 3y ago
  Even if you have a big asterix there for that special tax excluded from the price occasion it will already make lives a lot easier. Such a weird hill to die on.
  - lern_too_spel 3y ago
    An even bigger issue is internet purchases and car purchases. Cars are taxed at the local sales tax rate of where the buyer lives. Internet sales are taxed at the state sales tax rate where the buyer lives.
    - graftak 3y ago
      Same in Europe where our ‘state-sized’ countries have different taxes but Amazon has no issue applying a 21% sales tax real time when I order from their .de site where a 20% tax is the local norm.
      - lern_too_spel 3y ago
        A city is much smaller than a state, and we're talking about advertisements here. Of course they charge you the correct amount.
- trealira 3y ago
  >You can't run a national "$5 footlong" or "dollar menu" national ad campaign if some states charge taxes on prepared food and some don't, [...] You can, if you change your prices in every state so that with added taxes, it adds up to $5 for the consumer. We don't have to accommodate our system of sales taxes to make it more convenient for national corporations to make $5 foot-long campaigns.
AlchemistCamp 3y ago
I don’t want taxes hidden inside the price of an item. It’s much better for consumers (and voters) to be aware of how much of each purchase goes to taxes.
- graftak 3y ago
  It’s on the receipt. And everyone where I live knows what the sales tax percentages are (there are two brackets).
  - AlchemistCamp 3y ago
    I have no idea where you live, but it's great that it's on your receipt.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> Really don't see how any of the points above are an obstacle to putting the ~actual~ price of a product on paper The pieces of paper are in multiple places. The bill is calculated in one place. Doing things in multiple places is more costly and error prone than doing it in one. (Also, the paper being physical means a physical person must update it. The POS can be remotely managed.) Here is New York State's guide on clothing and footwear taxes [1]. (It's particularly well documented.) If any one of those counties makes a change, you're now proposing someone run through the entire store to update the affected labels or else risk lying about the price. That's manageable for a multinational. It's bonkers for a small shop owner. Instead, their POS is remotely updated (worst case, they get a bulletin to punch in a code) and when the barcode is scanned, the system figures out whether it's $110 or less and if it's really a costume or not. If consumers valued it, tax-inclusive pricing might be worth the effort. But in America, we don't. The number isn't big enough, and I'm swiping or tapping either way. (Cash-only stores do tend to be tax inclusive, at least in New York, but that's because they're usually not paying the whole tax.) As I said, I can't remember finding it helpful when I travel to tax-inclusive priced countries. Surprising as it may seem, this really is simply a cultural preference. No right answer. [1] https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/sales/pub718c.pdf https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/sales/pub718c.pdf

PeterStuer 3y ago
The store knows what to charge, they chose not to put it on the shelf label. When prices change, people change the shelf label, whether it is paper or ePaper tags is irrelevant to having the tax added in or not. What seems 'bonkers' to you has been standard practice in most of the world for decades.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > When prices change, people change the shelf label This isn't free. That's someone's time and energy spent on something I, as the consumer, don't care about. Why? I'd much rather have that person available to help, ready at the counter or frankly at home or in a park enjoying their life. What has meaning for you doesn't for me. I don't value having a precise price at selection versus purchase. At all. Like most Americans. That doesn't mean I don't see the value in your argument, just that I reject it as something that matters to me. > What seems 'bonkers' to you has been standard practice in most of the world for decades Not remotely comparable in terms of rulebook complexity. Also, income: if you want to find tax-inclusive round pricing in America, go to impoverished neighborhoods. There, every nickel counts and folks pay cash--it makes sense to spend the effort to precisely message pricing ex ante. Also, in most of the world posted prices either aren't a thing or are completely negotiable. Haggling at the point of sale isn't a thing in day-to-day America.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - noahtallen 3y ago
    The workers at a grocery store are already spending time setting and changing price labels across the store on a regular basis. (Such as for the many changing sales most stores have.) They often have a digital, hand-held label printer. It would be extremely simple for that printer to just print the local sales tax on the label. Not to mention the vast amount of online shopping Americans do, where it would be trivial to include a local sales tax. (Every online store I'm aware of already immediately asks for your location and tells you to search for the nearest location anyways.) I also reject the idea that most Americans wouldn't value this. I would bet money most Americans would prefer it -- they just aren't aware that other countries are capable of doing things better.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    I concede that my other comment saying "there's no reason for it not to be [included in the price]" is inaccurate, cause this is a reason. But also, how often does sales tax change that this is a real issue?
ramblenode 3y ago
> If consumers valued it, tax-inclusive pricing might be worth the effort. But in America, we don't. That's not true. I would guess the vast majority of consumers would at least slightly prefer that the tax be included in the display price. The problem is those consumers aren't an organized interest group, whereas retailers are. It's not a "cultural preference"--it's just the inability of the political system to address large but diffuse problems.
- AlchemistCamp 3y ago
  I sincerely doubt that. I prefer to know how much of the price is from taxes because of transparency, as I mentioned in another comment on this thread. Furthermore, literally everywhere I’ve lived in America, I had 3+ local sales tax rates within my typical shopping range and it’s nice to know which areas have lower rates so I can preferentially make larger shopping trips there.
  - Sabinus 3y ago
    >I prefer to know how much of the price is from taxes because of transparency, as I mentioned in another comment on this thread. In the current system, to get that information you have to compare the label cost to the cost you paid. How is that more simple and convenient than looking up sales taxes in your area, or mandating they be displayed on labels in addition to price?
  - graftak 3y ago
    Sales tax is always printed on the receipt so it’s glanceable, often it is itemised too as product types might fall into varying tax brackets.

lern_too_spel 3y ago

You can't run a national "$5 footlong" or "dollar menu" national ad campaign if some states charge taxes on prepared food and some don't, and of those states that charge taxes, some require tax inclusive pricing and some don't. Tax-inclusive pricing isn't something that can be solved with a state law.

graftak 3y ago
Even if you have a big asterix there for that special tax excluded from the price occasion it will already make lives a lot easier. Such a weird hill to die on.
- lern_too_spel 3y ago
  An even bigger issue is internet purchases and car purchases. Cars are taxed at the local sales tax rate of where the buyer lives. Internet sales are taxed at the state sales tax rate where the buyer lives.
  - graftak 3y ago
    Same in Europe where our ‘state-sized’ countries have different taxes but Amazon has no issue applying a 21% sales tax real time when I order from their .de site where a 20% tax is the local norm.
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      A city is much smaller than a state, and we're talking about advertisements here. Of course they charge you the correct amount.
trealira 3y ago
>You can't run a national "$5 footlong" or "dollar menu" national ad campaign if some states charge taxes on prepared food and some don't, [...] You can, if you change your prices in every state so that with added taxes, it adds up to $5 for the consumer. We don't have to accommodate our system of sales taxes to make it more convenient for national corporations to make $5 foot-long campaigns.

AlchemistCamp 3y ago

I don’t want taxes hidden inside the price of an item. It’s much better for consumers (and voters) to be aware of how much of each purchase goes to taxes.

graftak 3y ago
It’s on the receipt. And everyone where I live knows what the sales tax percentages are (there are two brackets).
- AlchemistCamp 3y ago
  I have no idea where you live, but it's great that it's on your receipt.