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I am consistently disappointed with the iPhone’s video quality. It looks like the bitrate is simply too low, either to keep file size down or because the phone

I am consistently disappointed with the iPhone’s video quality. It looks like the bitrate is simply too low, either to keep file size down or because the phone can’t encode 4K that fast. However shooting in ProRES is simply not practical for me. Can apps like this improve the HEVC video quality, or do they simply reuse the Apple defaults with a new UI? Or is there a ProRES workflow I could be using on the phone?

diggan 3y ago
May I ask why ProRes isn't practical for you? Would help others to suggest a workflow that would work better than what you tried before.
- unfamiliar 3y ago
  My main use case is family/holiday videos. Saving massive pro-res files would fill up the space quickly and I’m not sure how to process them into HEVC quickly and simply.
  - jpc0 3y ago
    Higher bitrate HEVC won't be any smaller than the same bitrate ProRes. Why would you think that it would be?
    - turnsout 3y ago
      You must not have tried ProRes on the iPhone. ProRes HQ consumes around 1.7GB per minute, which is an order of magnitude more than the HEVC bitrates. Apple: "ProRes files are up to 30 times larger than HEVC files." [1] [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212832 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212832
    - dylan604 3y ago
      I don't even have a clue how to force HEVC to use the same bitrate a ProRes file would use. HEVC is very efficient, and does not always use the full amount of bitrate being allowed. That's its the entire point for being. Trying to get "high bitrate" HEVC is one of those "you're holding it wrong" moments.
      - unfamiliar 3y ago
        I think this is just wrong. I don’t want “the same bitrate as ProRes”, I just want higher bitrate HEVC. For example YouTube has recently added a “high bitrate 1080p” option, which is still 1080p but less compressed and therefore better quality.
        jpc0 3y ago
        To understand you correctly, you want an app designed to shoot video for videographers in ProRes who usually shoot video in ProRes or raw to add low bitrate HEVC, the same low bitrate HEVC you can get in the stock camera app? Sounds like scope creep not targeted at their intended audience. Likewise what would be the difference between adding a 45mbps ProRes option vs adding a 45mbps hevc option? That fact it is hevc? They would take up the same storage space.
      - jpc0 3y ago
        HEVC, and H264 for that matter does have an "optimal quality" mode, which depends greatly on the source media, you could get full bitrate for highly active footage with tons of movement or you could get tiny bitrate if you are just shooting a still image for 20minutes. They also both have inter and intra frame compression modes. HEVC or H264 at the same bitrate in interframe mode would produce the same size files as Prores. Regarding the comment that Apple Prores on iPhone is huge... We aren't discussing an Apple product here unless Apple bought Blackmagic while I wasn't looking. Prores has it's use cases, go look them up, if you really just want to quickly shoot family vacation videos and not have it take up a ton of storage open the Apple camera app and hit record, the blackmagic app and Prores is likely not for you.
        dylan604 3y ago
        >Regarding the comment that Apple Prores on iPhone is huge... We aren't discussing an Apple product here unless Apple bought Blackmagic while I wasn't looking. Whathahuh? BMD just released an iOS app to use their software on an iPhone. So, which device are we talking about that isn't an Apple device? >Prores has it's use cases, go look them up Thanks, but I'm well aware of what ProRes is. At this point, I'm just assuming you're a troll.
coldtea 3y ago
>I am consistently disappointed with the iPhone’s video quality. Compared to what? An Arri? Bebause on its own, as far as smartphone video goes, it's quite fine. You can also trivially shoot a higher bitrate (not ProRes) in Filmic Pro and other apps.
- kuschku 3y ago
  Considering how large tha camera bump has gotten, you could probably put a single large 1" sensor in there as one of the Xperia phones did. Then you'd get much better image quality and wouldn't have to rely as much on AI to fix the sensor's limitations. And even ignoring the limitations of the sensor, the iPhone isn't even the best smartphone. Due to the fact that it can only record variable framerate video it's basically unusable for professional work, even with the Pro model in ProRes.
  - unfamiliar 3y ago
    I don’t think the sensor is the limiting factor for me. I am happy with the photo quality on the 15 pro. It’s the video compression. Or maybe the speed at which the sensor can offload video data.
    - kuschku 3y ago
      The phone has to do a significant amount of post-processing to get the sensor data to look as good as it does. With a better sensor, you'd actually have less work to do in post.
  - michaelt 3y ago
    > Then you'd get much better image quality and wouldn't have to rely as much on AI to fix the sensor's limitations. Interesting, I've always thought the iphone camera produces extremely good results. Subject to the obvious limitations like not being able to replace the lens! What sort of benchmarks should I be looking at, to really measure the camera's limitations?
    - 3y ago
sixothree 3y ago
Bitrate definitely is an issue for me when I use slomo. It drops frames like crazy and looks choppy.
turnsout 3y ago
Context: I'm in the middle of adding Apple Log support to my photo/video processing app. The iPhone has incredible video quality, but you're right that the default Camera app botches it (or requires you to shoot ProRes HQ which is objectively overkill). I've been using Blackmagic Camera to shoot 4K Apple Log into a 10bit HEVC file, and it works really well. The files are easy to grade, and the bitrate is enough for everyday use. Footage from the Blackmagic app is clean, clear and not over sharpened. I really hope Apple adds an HEVC Log option!
- unfamiliar 3y ago
  What’s your app?

diggan 3y ago

May I ask why ProRes isn't practical for you? Would help others to suggest a workflow that would work better than what you tried before.

unfamiliar 3y ago
My main use case is family/holiday videos. Saving massive pro-res files would fill up the space quickly and I’m not sure how to process them into HEVC quickly and simply.
- jpc0 3y ago
  Higher bitrate HEVC won't be any smaller than the same bitrate ProRes. Why would you think that it would be?
  - turnsout 3y ago
    You must not have tried ProRes on the iPhone. ProRes HQ consumes around 1.7GB per minute, which is an order of magnitude more than the HEVC bitrates. Apple: "ProRes files are up to 30 times larger than HEVC files." [1] [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212832 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212832
  - dylan604 3y ago
    I don't even have a clue how to force HEVC to use the same bitrate a ProRes file would use. HEVC is very efficient, and does not always use the full amount of bitrate being allowed. That's its the entire point for being. Trying to get "high bitrate" HEVC is one of those "you're holding it wrong" moments.
    - unfamiliar 3y ago
      I think this is just wrong. I don’t want “the same bitrate as ProRes”, I just want higher bitrate HEVC. For example YouTube has recently added a “high bitrate 1080p” option, which is still 1080p but less compressed and therefore better quality.
      - jpc0 3y ago
        To understand you correctly, you want an app designed to shoot video for videographers in ProRes who usually shoot video in ProRes or raw to add low bitrate HEVC, the same low bitrate HEVC you can get in the stock camera app? Sounds like scope creep not targeted at their intended audience. Likewise what would be the difference between adding a 45mbps ProRes option vs adding a 45mbps hevc option? That fact it is hevc? They would take up the same storage space.
    - jpc0 3y ago
      HEVC, and H264 for that matter does have an "optimal quality" mode, which depends greatly on the source media, you could get full bitrate for highly active footage with tons of movement or you could get tiny bitrate if you are just shooting a still image for 20minutes. They also both have inter and intra frame compression modes. HEVC or H264 at the same bitrate in interframe mode would produce the same size files as Prores. Regarding the comment that Apple Prores on iPhone is huge... We aren't discussing an Apple product here unless Apple bought Blackmagic while I wasn't looking. Prores has it's use cases, go look them up, if you really just want to quickly shoot family vacation videos and not have it take up a ton of storage open the Apple camera app and hit record, the blackmagic app and Prores is likely not for you.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        >Regarding the comment that Apple Prores on iPhone is huge... We aren't discussing an Apple product here unless Apple bought Blackmagic while I wasn't looking. Whathahuh? BMD just released an iOS app to use their software on an iPhone. So, which device are we talking about that isn't an Apple device? >Prores has it's use cases, go look them up Thanks, but I'm well aware of what ProRes is. At this point, I'm just assuming you're a troll.

coldtea 3y ago

>I am consistently disappointed with the iPhone’s video quality. Compared to what? An Arri? Bebause on its own, as far as smartphone video goes, it's quite fine. You can also trivially shoot a higher bitrate (not ProRes) in Filmic Pro and other apps.

kuschku 3y ago
Considering how large tha camera bump has gotten, you could probably put a single large 1" sensor in there as one of the Xperia phones did. Then you'd get much better image quality and wouldn't have to rely as much on AI to fix the sensor's limitations. And even ignoring the limitations of the sensor, the iPhone isn't even the best smartphone. Due to the fact that it can only record variable framerate video it's basically unusable for professional work, even with the Pro model in ProRes.
- unfamiliar 3y ago
  I don’t think the sensor is the limiting factor for me. I am happy with the photo quality on the 15 pro. It’s the video compression. Or maybe the speed at which the sensor can offload video data.
  - kuschku 3y ago
    The phone has to do a significant amount of post-processing to get the sensor data to look as good as it does. With a better sensor, you'd actually have less work to do in post.
- michaelt 3y ago
  > Then you'd get much better image quality and wouldn't have to rely as much on AI to fix the sensor's limitations. Interesting, I've always thought the iphone camera produces extremely good results. Subject to the obvious limitations like not being able to replace the lens! What sort of benchmarks should I be looking at, to really measure the camera's limitations?
  - 3y ago

sixothree 3y ago

Bitrate definitely is an issue for me when I use slomo. It drops frames like crazy and looks choppy.

turnsout 3y ago

Context: I'm in the middle of adding Apple Log support to my photo/video processing app. The iPhone has incredible video quality, but you're right that the default Camera app botches it (or requires you to shoot ProRes HQ which is objectively overkill). I've been using Blackmagic Camera to shoot 4K Apple Log into a 10bit HEVC file, and it works really well. The files are easy to grade, and the bitrate is enough for everyday use. Footage from the Blackmagic app is clean, clear and not over sharpened. I really hope Apple adds an HEVC Log option!

unfamiliar 3y ago
What’s your app?