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No, you're completely ignoring the facts that @refurb is stating. The US govt is also extremely inefficient, true, but taxes in the US are far less than in Euro

No, you're completely ignoring the facts that @refurb is stating. The US govt is also extremely inefficient, true, but taxes in the US are far less than in Europe, on average.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
I simply dont think that is true on a factual basis. The US taxes as a % of GDP is a few percent behind Europe, but GDP is higher in the US. The US government pulls in more dollars of revenue per resident than most European countries. the OECD data refub provided matches up with my claim. Do you have other data? You can validate this with the opposite approach. Looking at government spending [1] The US government spends 31.5k per person. Germany spends 31.8k per person and France spends 32.3k per person. Deficit spending is a few percent higher in the US, but pretty similar. Switzerland, Ireland, and the UK are all in the mid 20's. The idea that the US governments is underfunded or that taxes are vastly lower are pervasive myths. It is based on a bait and switch looking at %GDP instead of dollars paid to the government, as if the cost of government services like roads or insulin are naturally proportional to GDP. The entire concept of higher GDP implies you should be able to have more purchasing power, goods, and services with higher GDP.
- refurb 3y ago
  Ok, but my had nothing to do with all that, just that the tax burden as a percentage of income is much lower in the US than many European countries. I never said anything about how the money is used.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    Yes, and I'm saying that the US tax "burden" as a percent of GDP is a misleading way of looking at it. When it comes to real people and real "burden", what matters how much you have to hand over, and how hard you have to work for it. In this context, Americans pay more than most Europeans to their governments, and work far more hours. This relates to upthread discussion: >"If Americans knew what Europeans get for their tax dollars, they (Americans) would riot in the streets"... It's really insane to see Americans pay the same tax as Europeans (and Canadians, and Australians) but get so, so much less for that money. And of the responses claiming that Americans pay less, and generally implying that Americans have it easy with respect to taxes.
    - refurb 3y ago
      In this context, Americans pay more than most Europeans to their governments, and work far more hours. I disagree. Americans work more hours (not a lot more, but more) and make more money per hour and overall. So when they have to hand over money for taxes, they hand over much less, as a percentage of hours worked. So they end up keeping more in the end. That sounds like a lower tax burden to me. And the upthread comment just isn’t true. Americans pay less tax overall and spend fewer work hours paying that tax. So of course they don’t get the same benefits as Europeans. That’s the trade off. If Americans had to pay European tax rates they’d see a huge increase in tax burden., even the middle class. We’re talking a 50% increase in taxes. That’s very significant. So if you asked Americans “do you want European level of benefits?” almost all would say yes. If you asked them if they wanted to pay much higher tax rates in exchange? A lot would say “no”.

No, you're completely ignoring the facts that @refurb is stating. The US govt is also extremely inefficient, true, but taxes in the US are far less than in Europe, on average.

s1artibartfast 3y ago

I simply dont think that is true on a factual basis. The US taxes as a % of GDP is a few percent behind Europe, but GDP is higher in the US. The US government pulls in more dollars of revenue per resident than most European countries. the OECD data refub provided matches up with my claim. Do you have other data? You can validate this with the opposite approach. Looking at government spending [1] The US government spends 31.5k per person. Germany spends 31.8k per person and France spends 32.3k per person. Deficit spending is a few percent higher in the US, but pretty similar. Switzerland, Ireland, and the UK are all in the mid 20's. The idea that the US governments is underfunded or that taxes are vastly lower are pervasive myths. It is based on a bait and switch looking at %GDP instead of dollars paid to the government, as if the cost of government services like roads or insulin are naturally proportional to GDP. The entire concept of higher GDP implies you should be able to have more purchasing power, goods, and services with higher GDP.

refurb 3y ago
Ok, but my had nothing to do with all that, just that the tax burden as a percentage of income is much lower in the US than many European countries. I never said anything about how the money is used.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Yes, and I'm saying that the US tax "burden" as a percent of GDP is a misleading way of looking at it. When it comes to real people and real "burden", what matters how much you have to hand over, and how hard you have to work for it. In this context, Americans pay more than most Europeans to their governments, and work far more hours. This relates to upthread discussion: >"If Americans knew what Europeans get for their tax dollars, they (Americans) would riot in the streets"... It's really insane to see Americans pay the same tax as Europeans (and Canadians, and Australians) but get so, so much less for that money. And of the responses claiming that Americans pay less, and generally implying that Americans have it easy with respect to taxes.
  - refurb 3y ago
    In this context, Americans pay more than most Europeans to their governments, and work far more hours. I disagree. Americans work more hours (not a lot more, but more) and make more money per hour and overall. So when they have to hand over money for taxes, they hand over much less, as a percentage of hours worked. So they end up keeping more in the end. That sounds like a lower tax burden to me. And the upthread comment just isn’t true. Americans pay less tax overall and spend fewer work hours paying that tax. So of course they don’t get the same benefits as Europeans. That’s the trade off. If Americans had to pay European tax rates they’d see a huge increase in tax burden., even the middle class. We’re talking a 50% increase in taxes. That’s very significant. So if you asked Americans “do you want European level of benefits?” almost all would say yes. If you asked them if they wanted to pay much higher tax rates in exchange? A lot would say “no”.